Posted by oldave on 12/9/2014 2:46:00 PM (view original):
true enough, guys..
but at the bottom of all these numbers i assume that there is a an "engine"  which uses a series of formulas to determine the outcome of each play.
we know that IQ is used in there somehow... but how?

i agree that taken by itself, it makes no sense for IQ to affect speed....and heck... maybe it doesnt.   but most seem to agree that when the engine decides whether a player makes or misses a shot.. SP and other attributes are very important,   in other words, at that point SP is not just "speed", but one of the factors that affects whether a shot is made or not.  

i supppose you could let IQ affect only LP and PE( and bh?) for plays on which the player is shooting...   BH and PA for plays where he doesnt shoot... DE and SB for when he is on defense..  RE for when there is a rebound... which does make more sense intuitivily,  .. i never really considered it that way but i guess that could be it.   the significance of that would be that young low IQ players who are of the type that rely more on ath and sp,  would not be hurt as much by low IQ.


hmmmmmm.....................

So are you saying that IQ is a base kind of like ATH?  Interesting thought...

I am not saying you are wrong or I am right, TRUST ME!  I guess I just don't see it, it makes sense that a player can read the defense better so he can take a BETTER shot with IQ, but his three point shot with a PERIM of 94 is a PERIM of 94 no matter what.  Because he can get open he is going to make a higher percentage, but he is still a 94 guarded and a 94 wide open.

That is just my guess, I have no facts to back that up whatsoever.

not sure i understand, dasher.

heres what i am saying:'
i think the engine uses all the inputs to determine a player's probability of making a certain shot.  
once it determines that probablity the RNG comes in to determine whether that particular shot is made.  heck, it might be determined that the probability of that shot going in is 70%... but the RNG is still needed to tell us if it actually went in on that specific occassion.

i think we know what all the inputs are that go into the calculation... but clearly some factors are more important than others so the relative worth of each factor is hard to know with any certianty.   in addition to the player attributes you have his teammates,  the opponents,  fatigue, type of o and d, etc...  and IQ.
so, what im getting at is that we know ( i think we know) that IQ is one of the inputs that will determine the probability of a specific particular event.   just trying to figure out how it might be used.  i guess it could be as a multiplier on the final event probability that is arrived at?

im not a programmer,   but im assuming guys that are programmers could make some decent educated guesses as to some possible likley ways that the IQ input might be used within the equation.  maybe not.  or maybe im just talking nonsense

all im saying, jay, is that if IQ affects gameplay.. and i think we all agree it does.  then it HAS to be a component of the formula that is used on each individual play or shot or event.   not sure if it is a multipier on attributes,  or maybe a multiplier on the final probability... but its gotta be in there soemwhere.

kind of funny now that i look at last few posts...

originally it was said that it wouldnt make sense for IQ to affect SP.  and i kinda agreed.

then it was said that it doesnt make sense for IQ to affect PE.  and that makes sense too.   and then when i think about it, in real terms,  we would expect that IQ would help a player get less contested looks when he shoots.  which would actually be tied to SP!

heres another spitball thought... maybe the first calculation in a shot event is "how open is the player?"  which might look at his speed, bh, teammates,  IQs,  and ooponents defensive IQ and attributes  (and also fatigue) to come with an openness number.  and then thier LP or PE would be used to determine if they make it.   thus,  a player with 94 PE who is really slow and low IQ and playing against a great D, would shoot a really low % not becuase of his PE (he's still a great shooter, technically)  but because he cant get open. ... maybe?


my head hurts

Posted by oldave on 12/9/2014 4:12:00 PM (view original):
kind of funny now that i look at last few posts...

originally it was said that it wouldnt make sense for IQ to affect SP.  and i kinda agreed.

then it was said that it doesnt make sense for IQ to affect PE.  and that makes sense too.   and then when i think about it, in real terms,  we would expect that IQ would help a player get less contested looks when he shoots.  which would actually be tied to SP!

heres another spitball thought... maybe the first calculation in a shot event is "how open is the player?"  which might look at his speed, bh, teammates,  IQs,  and ooponents defensive IQ and attributes  (and also fatigue) to come with an openness number.  and then thier LP or PE would be used to determine if they make it.   thus,  a player with 94 PE who is really slow and low IQ and playing against a great D, would shoot a really low % not becuase of his PE (he's still a great shooter, technically)  but because he cant get open. ... maybe?


my head hurts

No, I am with you.  I tried to explain that is what I thought, probably didn't get that across :(  Anyway, that is what I am saying.  A 94 PERIM shooter is a 94 PERIM shooter, that we can agree on.  How good his IQ is in the offense is how open he can get.  That vs. the defensive IQ, what they run, blah blah.  So, if what you are saying is that it ultimately plays into a "formula", I can get on board with that.

It's like Michael Jordan shooting an open jumper.  If he is open from 15 feet, 99.99% of the time he is sinking it.  But, if defense gets put on him, probably a double team, and he has to shoot a turn around fade away, the percentage isn't going to be as high.

So, yes I think that based on programming, it has to be a formula.  A 94 PERIM shooter with an A+ IQ vs a 94 DEF player with a C IQ, is going to shoot at a higher percentage than vice versa.

Posted by oldave on 12/9/2014 4:12:00 PM (view original):
kind of funny now that i look at last few posts...

originally it was said that it wouldnt make sense for IQ to affect SP.  and i kinda agreed.

then it was said that it doesnt make sense for IQ to affect PE.  and that makes sense too.   and then when i think about it, in real terms,  we would expect that IQ would help a player get less contested looks when he shoots.  which would actually be tied to SP!

heres another spitball thought... maybe the first calculation in a shot event is "how open is the player?"  which might look at his speed, bh, teammates,  IQs,  and ooponents defensive IQ and attributes  (and also fatigue) to come with an openness number.  and then thier LP or PE would be used to determine if they make it.   thus,  a player with 94 PE who is really slow and low IQ and playing against a great D, would shoot a really low % not becuase of his PE (he's still a great shooter, technically)  but because he cant get open. ... maybe?


my head hurts

I think you're hitting the nail on the head dave. Your thoughts agree with how I've come to understand 3-pt shooting ability.