I've run a decent amount of zone at D3 and low D1 and I take the approach that DEF is as important as in the other sets.  While I have the *ability* to hide a bad defender, it tends to restrict me to leveraging the averages to force me into either a 3-2 or 2-3.  I would say generally I play 2-3 as a base, and use the 3-2 when there's clear PER threats on the other team.

I haven't done analysis, although I probably should, on the hit rebounding takes, and just eyeballing SB I don't see much difference one way or another.  The main benefit I see in Zone as a defense is it absolutely can suppress opponents FG%, probably more than other sets, and isn't that really what defense is supposed to do?  I see press as turnover and fatigue machine, M2M as just having 5 good guys to defend their 5 guys and zone as an overall slowdown/shutdown mechanism.  

I've toyed with the idea of trying zone at the one Big6 school I've made it to so far, certainly there's nothing I'm doing with Michigan as is that is going to keep me from getting fired, might as well try something new, but I don't know how the "super recruit" would work in a zone.  Maybe just scaling up the ratings and it plays the same.  

IMO, it's a mistake to think of it as hiding players. What youre doing is utilizing players with other skills. If you can get an elite defensive guard, you can pair him with low ath/def point who has the classic point skills that improve your scoring. You're not hiding a defender; you're utilizing a scorer and/or distributor. Likewise, if you find an elite D forward, you can pair him with one of those rebound/blk machines. I find the greatest strength of zone is that it allows you the flexibility to utilize players with elite strengths better than the other sets.

SB (the rating) is used in the defensive metric for all players.   It is a factor in the "does the shot go in" equation.   It is more important in the zone AND for post defenders.  Block shots (the statistic) is decided after the "does it go in" in the event tree and is more or less window dressing.  More missed shots lead to more blocks, not the other way around.

Post defense is an equation that includes ATH, DEF, SB, IQ and to a lesser degree Speed.  If I had to guess in the zone it is probably something like ).35 DEF+ .3ATH+.3 SB+.05SPD) * IQ Factor * +/- Setting

From a ticket last summer

Couple questions on shot blocking: 1. The defenders shot block score is used in the equation that determines if the FG is successful right?  2. Are blocks determined after the FGA is determined to be unsuccessful? 3. If so, what is the benefit of "blocking a shot" does the defense have a better chance of gaining the rebound? Thanks
7/14/2014 10:18 AM	Customer Support
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. There's no further benefit as far as the result of the play at that point. The benefit in having shot blockers comes from affecting FG%.

and another one

6/11/2013 12:59 PM	Trentonjoe
In a zone defense, are block ratings averaged like defense in the interior defensive equation. I was under the assumption that all defensive components were averaged (ATH, DEF, BLK, IQ). Is this not the case?
6/11/2013 3:58 PM	Customer Support
Chris, Can you give some more detail about what context you're talking about? You mean the impact of shot blocking on opponent shooting? Or do you mean when a player actually blocks a shot?
6/11/2013 6:35 PM	Trentonjoe
Both. But more the impact on opponents fg%
6/12/2013 8:20 AM	Customer Support
Shot blocking is one part of a player's defensive ability, which is then averaged when playing a zone.
6/12/2013 10:11 AM

You're the man trentonjoe, I hadn't even thought about SB as anything other than something that leads to blocks.  Makes much more sense now.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/15/2015 2:33:00 PM (view original):
and another one

6/11/2013 12:59 PM	Trentonjoe
In a zone defense, are block ratings averaged like defense in the interior defensive equation. I was under the assumption that all defensive components were averaged (ATH, DEF, BLK, IQ). Is this not the case?
6/11/2013 3:58 PM	Customer Support
Chris, Can you give some more detail about what context you're talking about? You mean the impact of shot blocking on opponent shooting? Or do you mean when a player actually blocks a shot?
6/11/2013 6:35 PM	Trentonjoe
Both. But more the impact on opponents fg%
6/12/2013 8:20 AM	Customer Support
Shot blocking is one part of a player's defensive ability, which is then averaged when playing a zone.
6/12/2013 10:11 AM

Your name is Chris??? I knew everything about you was a lie. I mean, if that's the case, then how can we even know for sure that you didn't doctor those responses from customer support?

And he's really from Salt Lake city lol

Thanks TJ.  I will still try to get guys that can both block shots and play defense.  

It seems a bit confusing, though.  So when I'm playing a 2-3 my forwards are averaged together. However, my SF never has any kind of shot blocking at all and my power forwards still tend to have decent and way more blocked shots than my SF.  I understand it is widow dressing but in that scenario I would expect my PF to be closer statistically to my SF than to my C in blocked shots, but that is just never the case.

From my last year's team.  The guy that started every regular season game at SF had a 5 rating for SB and he averaged 0.1 blk/game. (again, all but 4-5 games playing 2-3)  The guy playing PF had a 75 rating for SB and averaged 1.7 blks/game.  If blk is averaged they would both have a 40 rating for BLK and you would expect their statistics to be at least in the same ball park.

I guess what CS is saying though is that the forwards together have an 80/2 rating for SB, and then after the play happens it assigns the blk statistic which my PF would get a 15/1 ratio of those blocks.  But then why does my C have just as many blocks (roughly) as the PF.

I'm glad I know I'm not smart enough to figure these things out otherwise I would surely screw everything up.  I like to just play by the eye test.....yup, that guy looks like he'd make a good PF.....

Posted by guyo26 on 5/15/2015 4:41:00 PM (view original):
And he's really from Salt Lake city lol

SaltLakechris doesn't exactly have the same ring as Trentonjoe...he's the most diabolical poser west of the mississippi.

If it is averaged, you need both spots in 3-2 to be high at SB. If it is averaged, what do you do on a 2-3 zone, at SF-PF, go for blocks or go for speed? If the center is alone, doesn't he plays like a man to man center?

My best SB ever was a C on a man to man team. Did he disrupt only his opponent shot or did he have an impact on the whole team. To me, the answer aren't clear at all.

I know it works on FG% but how does it affect it, does it affect post players... if so, can it affect cutting players or penetration plays?

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/15/2015 2:30:00 PM (view original):
SB (the rating) is used in the defensive metric for all players.   It is a factor in the "does the shot go in" equation.   It is more important in the zone AND for post defenders.  Block shots (the statistic) is decided after the "does it go in" in the event tree and is more or less window dressing.  More missed shots lead to more blocks, not the other way around.

Post defense is an equation that includes ATH, DEF, SB, IQ and to a lesser degree Speed.  If I had to guess in the zone it is probably something like ).35 DEF+ .3ATH+.3 SB+.05SPD) * IQ Factor * +/- Setting

Ahhh...that was the important distinction that I didn't remember.  The BLK is determined after the fact by a separate computation, but the result was already determined by the prior calculation.   Excellent post.

Posted by zorzii on 5/15/2015 7:29:00 PM (view original):
If it is averaged, you need both spots in 3-2 to be high at SB. If it is averaged, what do you do on a 2-3 zone, at SF-PF, go for blocks or go for speed? If the center is alone, doesn't he plays like a man to man center?

My best SB ever was a C on a man to man team. Did he disrupt only his opponent shot or did he have an impact on the whole team. To me, the answer aren't clear at all.

I know it works on FG% but how does it affect it, does it affect post players... if so, can it affect cutting players or penetration plays?

Maybe I'm confused about what you're asking, but you can look at the box scores to see that the center in zone and in m2m can affect the shots of players in different positions. Centers will foul, and block shots, of all positions, so they must factor into the defense of those other positions as well. Just depends on where the shooter is on the floor. 

And no, you don't need both (or either) spots in 3-2 to be high in BLK. Of course it is better to be high than low. But it's still not as important as ATH or DEF in terms of how effective your defense is, at least not from what I've seen in game results. Give me a 70/70/40 Ath/Def/BLK low post defender over a 50/50/80 guy any day, any set.

"what do you do on a 2-3 zone, at SF-PF, go for blocks or go for speed?"

In your SF? Both. I think ideally, you want a SF that meets all of your needs in the ATH/SPD/REB/DEF/BH/PASS departments, but still has high enough SB that it wont negate the skills of the PF.

"My best SB ever was a C on a man to man team. Did he disrupt only his opponent shot or did he have an impact on the whole team. To me, the answer aren't clear at all."

I would think in a M2M scenario, Your C's blocking *ABILITY* would have only factored in the equation of defending the opp. C's shots.  However, since the question "who gets credit for the block?" is decided after "does the shot go in?", it is possible that your C recieved credit for more blocks that his abiltity directly impacted.

"I know it works on FG% but how does it affect it,"

SB is one part of a player's defensive ability, along with DEF/ATH/and a dash of SPD. The results are pitted against the results of your opposing players offensive abilties. The magical RNG dice are rolled & this answers the question "does the shot go in?"

does it affect post players... if so, can it affect cutting players or penetration plays?

Yes. Yes, & Yes.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/15/2015 6:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by guyo26 on 5/15/2015 4:41:00 PM (view original):
And he's really from Salt Lake city lol

SaltLakechris doesn't exactly have the same ring as Trentonjoe...he's the most diabolical poser west of the mississippi.

Trenton Joe Jr. was my stage name in the 1990's.....I had a very successful karaoke career in the Greater Trenton area....I won $25 once and some chick bought me a shot of Wild Turkey once....I think it was a chick