Posted by italyprof on 5/29/2015 6:17:00 AM (view original):
My comment was by way of an analogy: systems that seek to represent the real world effects of things by mapping them onto money values ultimately fail. I hold to that position. As to pinotfan's rejoinder, I will ignore the religious fundamentalist expression of faith that is the first half of his answer and address only the historical factual (and partly corrective I admit, since I was sloppier in one historical example than I should have been) part of his reply:

"Historical aside: the British Navy had nothing to do with the decision to call off Unternehmen Seelöwe in 1940, and navy steel had nothing to do with Napoleon not invading England either."

Okay, everyone knows that the Battle of Britain was fought in the air. Why? Because Hitler couldn't invade Britain because he could not get past the British Navy. That is sort of a no-brainer.

Second, about Napoleon (this is the one partly corrective aspect of my esteemed colleague's reply): the British ships were of course still wooden in 1815. The cannon and cannoballs on those ships were iron dude. 

Hitler did not invade Britain for many reasons.  The Luftwaffe was ill-designed to support such a mission (the types of aircraft designed and manufactured were for the support of mobile land action and counter-air); the Kriegsmarine lacked assault craft and most of the support shipping necessary for a sustained invasion (the ships were primarily designed for raiding on the open seas, not supporting activities); Hitler reacted emotionally to a British bombing of Berlin and shifted bombing targets from strategic ones to population centers, ergo diminishing the tactical advantage the Germans temporarily enjoyed; and others.  The British Navy was no factor in deterring a cross-channel assault.

As for Napoleon's navy, it did not lack in cannons and ammunition so there was no iron-based advantage to the British in that regard.

And as for 'the religious fundamentalist expression of faith': I'm an atheist.

The dominant irrational religious faith of our times is the belief against all evidence to the contrary that a magic "invisible hand" makes everything work out alright and that in a world where millions go hungry, hundreds of millions lack gainful employment and technology is used to impose more work on those employed, that this is the best way to allocate resources. It is a religious faith every bit as much as Stalinist versions of Marxism were in the old Soviet Union and its results in human terms are about the same. 

Napoleon's navy had guns, all five of them relatively speaking compared with the vast British navy. If Hitler could have reached Britain he would have tried to conquer it. He couldn't. The Soviet Union was much tougher but it didn't have water and a big navy between it and Hitler's Vermacht. So he invaded. I am pretty sure Churchill and almost everyone in Britain knew this cause almost the only thing important to them was maintaining the navy. 

We're still having fun and talking about baseball right? 

So if I the cost of Babe Ruth's salary and the cost of "No No Nanette" is about the same then each team involved in the trade gets the same value right? Cause this is still pretty much how international trade works too. 

Hitler never seriously intended to invade England - not because he was afraid of the navy, but because until his dying days in the Fuhrerbunker he believed his Aryan Brothers across the channel would leave the Allies and join him. He was surprised they declared war (France and England declared war on Germany, not the other way around as many people think); he was surprised they didn't join him after Dunkirk and the fall of France. Hitler was easily surprised.

In Spring 1940, the German navy had 0 aircraft carriers; 0 battleships; 2 cruisers; 2 pocket battleships; 2 heavy cruisers; 4 light cruisers; and ZERO landing craft (as well as assorted smaller craft) - and it wasn't because they'd all been sunk, they hadn't been built. Does this sound like a navy preparing for an invasion?

In Spring 1940 the Luftwaffe had 0 heavy bombers; 0 torpedo bombers; and 0 long-range bombers (and none in development). Does this sound like an air force preparing for an invasion?

Regarding the importance of the British Navy as a deterrent, just because "Churchill and almost everyone in Britain knew this cause almost the only thing important to them was maintaining the navy" doesn't make it true - and I'm a Churchill fan (with the benefit of hindsight).

Hitler's plan was that through military attrition ("The Battle of Britain") and a naval blockade - the U-Boat war, which the Royal Navy was losing in astronomical numbers - England would eventually see the light and join them in their crusade against Communism and Stalin. Germany could have built a surface fleet capable of clearing the Channel enough to secure an invasion but chose not to - they had the resources, but they allocated them elsewhere (the U-Boat campaign being notable).

And to end, as you did, on a baseball note: Harry Frazee was a Broadway producer first, a baseball owner second. "No No Nanette" was a smash hit, still playing worldwide in revivals to this day. Who's to say he didn't think he came out ahead in the trade - and who are we to tell him he didn't?

This sounds like a job for...INVISIBLE HAND-OF-THE-FREE-MARKET MAN!

Crazy - very funny! I prefer Mr. A, though; I.H.O.T.F.M-Man is just too hard to say ...

Posted by italyprof on 5/29/2015 6:17:00 AM (view original):
My comment was by way of an analogy: systems that seek to represent the real world effects of things by mapping them onto money values ultimately fail. I hold to that position. As to pinotfan's rejoinder, I will ignore the religious fundamentalist expression of faith that is the first half of his answer and address only the historical factual (and partly corrective I admit, since I was sloppier in one historical example than I should have been) part of his reply:

"Historical aside: the British Navy had nothing to do with the decision to call off Unternehmen Seelöwe in 1940, and navy steel had nothing to do with Napoleon not invading England either."

Okay, everyone knows that the Battle of Britain was fought in the air. Why? Because Hitler couldn't invade Britain because he could not get past the British Navy. That is sort of a no-brainer.

Second, about Napoleon (this is the one partly corrective aspect of my esteemed colleague's reply): the British ships were of course still wooden in 1815. The cannon and cannoballs on those ships were iron dude. 

Napoleon commissioned Robert Fulton to design a submarine in 1800. Imagine if they had a fleet of them and steam-powered transports!

There is a new web game called what if wars, Otto Von Bismarck  @ Robert E  Lee are the cookie cutters in that program.