Posted by radarpix on 7/1/2017 12:36:00 AM (view original):
when you are at a Final Four place like I am, built the program after 15-20 seasons, going to have the 2nd pick in the NBA draft and another first round pick, the idea of taking a Power Five scrub program is just not interesting...I don't want to spend five seasons building that low down program. I hope you understand.

Bingo. Why try to move up? B6 advantages have been severely decreased. Why spend months and months trying to build up a garbage program when you can be successful at mid major.

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/1/2017 11:50:00 AM (view original):
This is how the game was designed. Many testers were howling about this issue during beta but WIS insisted on allowing lower division teams to recruit upper division players. Everyone including WIS knew we would end up here.

Does this make for a good game? It's been debated ad nauseum. Does it make the game "broken"? No.

I remember, kc...I was one of the howlers.

When a Big 12 school has 7 walkons and Palm Beach Atlantic is running out 12 position-ranked players, the game is broken, IMHO. Perhaps when DI SIM AI schools end up with 12 walkons each season, WIS will realize there is a problem with the programming logic.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Roster.aspx?tid=3440

A walking has the second highest D on the team.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 7/1/2017 2:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/1/2017 11:50:00 AM (view original):
This is how the game was designed. Many testers were howling about this issue during beta but WIS insisted on allowing lower division teams to recruit upper division players. Everyone including WIS knew we would end up here.

Does this make for a good game? It's been debated ad nauseum. Does it make the game "broken"? No.

I remember, kc...I was one of the howlers.

When a Big 12 school has 7 walkons and Palm Beach Atlantic is running out 12 position-ranked players, the game is broken, IMHO. Perhaps when DI SIM AI schools end up with 12 walkons each season, WIS will realize there is a problem with the programming logic.

A blind person can see the logic is goofy, I'm just not sure "broken" is the right word here.

To be clear, this is not an issue created by lower division teams being able to recruit higher division players. Low and mid-major D1 teams generally don't have the problem of multiple walk-ons, because they're not stuck on recruits that humans are going to beat them for, and are willing to move on to lower caliber D1 recruits when they do get beaten.

What would fix the "problem" of Big 6 programs with multiple walk-ons would be if sim recruiting logic was more intelligent. But as we see in a concurrent topic, there are people essentially complaining that it's too tough. Making sim teams stronger in general doesn't seem like a good way to improve the experience for most users. And anyway, as we see in this topic, it is not universal that people would find sim teams with full rosters of lower caliber recruits more appealing.

Radarpix's point that coaches with mid-major success should be able to take over high baseline teams *before* they crash and burn is exactly right, IMO. There's a way to achieve that without getting into those unintended consequences, and that's by fixing hiring, like they said they were going to do almost a year ago.

Posted by shoe3 on 7/1/2017 2:57:00 PM (view original):
To be clear, this is not an issue created by lower division teams being able to recruit higher division players. Low and mid-major D1 teams generally don't have the problem of multiple walk-ons, because they're not stuck on recruits that humans are going to beat them for, and are willing to move on to lower caliber D1 recruits when they do get beaten.

What would fix the "problem" of Big 6 programs with multiple walk-ons would be if sim recruiting logic was more intelligent. But as we see in a concurrent topic, there are people essentially complaining that it's too tough. Making sim teams stronger in general doesn't seem like a good way to improve the experience for most users. And anyway, as we see in this topic, it is not universal that people would find sim teams with full rosters of lower caliber recruits more appealing.

Radarpix's point that coaches with mid-major success should be able to take over high baseline teams *before* they crash and burn is exactly right, IMO. There's a way to achieve that without getting into those unintended consequences, and that's by fixing hiring, like they said they were going to do almost a year ago.

We disagree about the root cause of the problem. I agree jobs process remains a mess.

By people you mean more than one? There was only one person IIRC that said that.

If the root cause of the "problem" is the fact that lower division teams can recruit upper division players, why don't low and mid-major D1 programs have the same problem as Big 6 schools?

If you cap divisions and don't make the sim recruiting logic more intelligent, what changes? Aren't Big 6 sims still going to usually get beaten for the good recruits by humans, and take multiple walk-ons?

I wasn't disagreeing with your point about sim recruiting being the issue. I agree there.

However, if it worked where sims, instead of taking walk ons, just signed players that were available after recruiting was over then that would fix the issue too. But all "good" D1 players will already be taken by lower division schools so instead of taking walk ons they would just sign garbage players.

there are a couple ways to improve this. But none will be implemented. I think we all know that.

Posted by Benis on 7/1/2017 3:18:00 PM (view original):
By people you mean more than one? There was only one person IIRC that said that.

It's monsterturtl and cubcub there, but I suspect boosting sim recruiting intelligence is going to frustrate a lot more people than that, if actually implemented. That's not saying it should or shouldn't happen (it may make gameplay better, totally open to that possibility), just that the net consequence of stronger sims is going to be more frustration, probably a lot more; and if the purpose is just to make sims more appealing to take over, it's probably a big mistake.

Posted by shoe3 on 7/1/2017 3:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 7/1/2017 3:18:00 PM (view original):
By people you mean more than one? There was only one person IIRC that said that.

It's monsterturtl and cubcub there, but I suspect boosting sim recruiting intelligence is going to frustrate a lot more people than that, if actually implemented. That's not saying it should or shouldn't happen (it may make gameplay better, totally open to that possibility), just that the net consequence of stronger sims is going to be more frustration, probably a lot more; and if the purpose is just to make sims more appealing to take over, it's probably a big mistake.

What did I say? All I said is why WIS doesn't want to boost sims.

"Because people are paying for the game?"

Sim intelligence should go up for sure. Especially DI.

Posted by Benis on 7/1/2017 3:34:00 PM (view original):
However, if it worked where sims, instead of taking walk ons, just signed players that were available after recruiting was over then that would fix the issue too. But all "good" D1 players will already be taken by lower division schools so instead of taking walk ons they would just sign garbage players.

there are a couple ways to improve this. But none will be implemented. I think we all know that.

This has been suggested before, and I don't think it's a bad idea. I just don't know how much it improves, signing "garbage" players no one else wants to scholarships, instead of having them walk on. I guess some will have potential to improve them over long term if it stays sim, but I suspect most of those players get cut once a coach who knows what s/he's doing gets there anyway.

Posted by cubcub113 on 7/1/2017 3:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 7/1/2017 3:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 7/1/2017 3:18:00 PM (view original):
By people you mean more than one? There was only one person IIRC that said that.

It's monsterturtl and cubcub there, but I suspect boosting sim recruiting intelligence is going to frustrate a lot more people than that, if actually implemented. That's not saying it should or shouldn't happen (it may make gameplay better, totally open to that possibility), just that the net consequence of stronger sims is going to be more frustration, probably a lot more; and if the purpose is just to make sims more appealing to take over, it's probably a big mistake.

What did I say? All I said is why WIS doesn't want to boost sims.

"Because people are paying for the game?"

Sim intelligence should go up for sure. Especially DI.

I misread your intent then, apologies.

But I still suspect a lot of people are going to have a lot more to complain about if sim recruiting intelligence is boosted in a real way.

Well there are literally zero things that 100% of us will agree upon.

you even have a bonehead here who doesn't think too much downtime is a problem.