Posted by topdogggbm on 11/28/2018 10:25:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gdog13cavs on 11/25/2018 10:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/25/2018 2:08:00 PM (view original):
That depends on that sims effort. D1 teams recruiting credit is always shown exact. So if sim is at moderate, they are really at moderate. D2 recruiting credit is artificial in RS1, as moderate is actually high or very high in most cases, but doesn't show that until RS2 begins of course.

So if that sim offers more on the first cycle of RS2, they'd move up accordingly (whether it's high or very high) . If they sit idle for that cycle, they would remain at moderate.

All this is based on recruiting a projected D1 player

Are you sure about that? If the D-2 team is slightly ahead and has enough effort that they would be very high if not for the imposed cap, does the D-1 team also shows as moderate or would they show as high or very high?

D1 doesn't ever have an artificial showing. Moderate is moderate for a D1 school. Is there something i'm missing here? I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

I guess it depends on what you mean by artificial. I have had situations in which I was a DI in RS1 competing against a DII, in which we were both moderate, and then I increased effort a bit and jumped to High and the DII stayed at moderate. If there had been no DII team at moderate, I definitely would have been at very high given the level of effort put in. In such a case, does this mean, without the cap, that the DII team has put in more effort than I have, and would be at VH if not for the cap? Or, does this mean that I finally put in enough extra effort to exceed the DII team's effort to jump above them and get to H vs. their M? VH/H/M/L/VL are all relative based on how much effort has been put in by other teams. Based on some of my past battles and how much effort I've put it, it seemed to me like it may be more of the latter, but I'm really not sure.

“does this mean, without the cap, that the DII team has put in more effort than I have, and would be at VH if not for the cap?”

Kind of. In reality, the D2 *has* more effort credit. The red light means they can’t sign the player until the next session, though, so they appear as moderate until they are able to sign the player.

If a D2 and D1 have a similar amount of recruiting effort they will both be moderate. if the D2 has significantly more theywill be moderate and the D1 will be low.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/7/2018 1:58:00 PM (view original):
If a D2 and D1 have a similar amount of recruiting effort they will both be moderate. if the D2 has significantly more theywill be moderate and the D1 will be low.

The D2 can also be at moderate while the D1 sneaks into signing range at high. The D2 still has a significant advantage in effort credit, but no chance to sign the recruit until the second period, so if it’s an early signee, they’re screwed.

The main point I was getting at when I said artificial was about both teams being moderate. The D1 school is definitely moderate in that situation. While the D2 is either moderate, artificially high, or artificially very high.

there's never a situation where a D1 has to be artificial, in that manner

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/7/2018 2:54:00 PM (view original):
The main point I was getting at when I said artificial was about both teams being moderate. The D1 school is definitely moderate in that situation. While the D2 is either moderate, artificially high, or artificially very high.

there's never a situation where a D1 has to be artificial in that manner

If a D1 and a D2 are both listed as moderate, with no other teams above low, you know exactly what’s happening. The D2 is far ahead in effort credit, and if nothing changes to start the second session, the D2 will jump to VH after the first signing cycle of RS2 (and will sign, if an early or end of P1 signee).

The D2 has to be way ahead; otherwise the D1 would be at high or very high.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/7/2018 1:58:00 PM (view original):
If a D2 and D1 have a similar amount of recruiting effort they will both be moderate. if the D2 has significantly more theywill be moderate and the D1 will be low.

Looking at this again, and it’s not correct, assuming we’re talking about RS1. If the two teams have roughly the same amount of effort credit, and if scholarships have been offered, the D1 will be listed as VH, and the D2 as moderate. If it’s a late session guy and things stay exactly the same, the D2 team would move up to VH after the first cycle of RS2.

Its a little complicated and confusing, but very important for D2 coaches to understand that if they battle a D1 team for a D1 pool player who wants to sign in the first session, they have to get *way* ahead. The D1 team can take the recruit just by sneaking into signing range at high, which means the D2 has a very large lead in effort credit and still loses the player. It’s not a mistake you want to make.

Posted by shoe3 on 12/7/2018 4:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/7/2018 2:54:00 PM (view original):
The main point I was getting at when I said artificial was about both teams being moderate. The D1 school is definitely moderate in that situation. While the D2 is either moderate, artificially high, or artificially very high.

there's never a situation where a D1 has to be artificial in that manner

If a D1 and a D2 are both listed as moderate, with no other teams above low, you know exactly what’s happening. The D2 is far ahead in effort credit, and if nothing changes to start the second session, the D2 will jump to VH after the first signing cycle of RS2 (and will sign, if an early or end of P1 signee).

The D2 has to be way ahead; otherwise the D1 would be at high or very high.

Exactly. So isn't this what the entire thread is based around?

Posted by shoe3 on 12/7/2018 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/7/2018 1:58:00 PM (view original):
If a D2 and D1 have a similar amount of recruiting effort they will both be moderate. if the D2 has significantly more theywill be moderate and the D1 will be low.

The D2 can also be at moderate while the D1 sneaks into signing range at high. The D2 still has a significant advantage in effort credit, but no chance to sign the recruit until the second period, so if it’s an early signee, they’re screwed.

This is just completely wrong. If the D2 has an advantage in effort credit the D1 will always be moderate or lower.

There seems to be a mistaken perception throughout this thread that levels are generally attained by a certain level of effort. The levels are basically always relative. If a redlighted school is capped at moderate they will fix the level of moderate at whatever their effort credit is worth. If a higher-level school shows up at high or very high it means that school is ahead.

Posted by shoe3 on 12/7/2018 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/7/2018 1:58:00 PM (view original):
If a D2 and D1 have a similar amount of recruiting effort they will both be moderate. if the D2 has significantly more theywill be moderate and the D1 will be low.

Looking at this again, and it’s not correct, assuming we’re talking about RS1. If the two teams have roughly the same amount of effort credit, and if scholarships have been offered, the D1 will be listed as VH, and the D2 as moderate. If it’s a late session guy and things stay exactly the same, the D2 team would move up to VH after the first cycle of RS2.

Its a little complicated and confusing, but very important for D2 coaches to understand that if they battle a D1 team for a D1 pool player who wants to sign in the first session, they have to get *way* ahead. The D1 team can take the recruit just by sneaking into signing range at high, which means the D2 has a very large lead in effort credit and still loses the player. It’s not a mistake you want to make.

"The D1 team can take the recruit just by sneaking into signing range at high, which means the D2 has a very large lead in effort credit and still loses the player"

I disagree with this. If the D1 school gets to high, the D2 didn't have a large lead in effort. Sure, the D2 probably spent more. And/Or had more AP and/or promises. BUT.... the value of the effort of a D2 school is NOT equal to the value of the effort of a D1 school.

D1 5 HV is much much greater than 5 HV from a D2 school

To add to my above statement, here is an example.....

I am leading on a recruit that is "early" or "EoP1" for 5 of the 6 days. On Day 6, the poachers come out. The morning cycle I will see a D1 human show up for the first time at Very Low. Which means they just then put their first AP on the player. In the next cycle or two, I'll see the scholarship get offered.

In total, I may have 800 AP, 12 HV, 1 CV, 20 min, & Start.
Then D1 steals him that very next cycle, by getting to high or very high.

When that happens, that D1 doesn't have to (and likely didn't) "match" my effort. Or top my effort. I don't know exact numbers. But I wouldn't be surprised if that D1 offered only 5 HV, 1 CV, and 10 minutes. And because of his late start, might only have 180 AP in. That's because the effort from a D1 is worth more.

if the D1 equaled the numbers I had invested (800 AP, 12 HV, 1 CV, 20 min & Start), they likely would've obliterated me and I'd be at very low or low, at best.

Posted by dahsdebater on 12/7/2018 5:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/7/2018 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/7/2018 1:58:00 PM (view original):
If a D2 and D1 have a similar amount of recruiting effort they will both be moderate. if the D2 has significantly more theywill be moderate and the D1 will be low.

The D2 can also be at moderate while the D1 sneaks into signing range at high. The D2 still has a significant advantage in effort credit, but no chance to sign the recruit until the second period, so if it’s an early signee, they’re screwed.

This is just completely wrong. If the D2 has an advantage in effort credit the D1 will always be moderate or lower.

There seems to be a mistaken perception throughout this thread that levels are generally attained by a certain level of effort. The levels are basically always relative. If a redlighted school is capped at moderate they will fix the level of moderate at whatever their effort credit is worth. If a higher-level school shows up at high or very high it means that school is ahead.

This is exactly how I understand it. Effort is relative.

I think shoe would agree with what you two have posted. But I also think he is speaking on a level of what i discussed (and he's adding unneeded confusion by doing so)

"i think" what shoe is saying, is if a D2 has 15 visits and is listed at moderate, and a D1 has 14 visits and is listed at high, he is presenting it as "15 is more than 14 as far as the effort".

When really 14 visits from a D1 is worth way more than 15 visits from a D2. Which is more along the lines of what you guys are saying.

Does that help? Or are we all just chasing our tails?

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/7/2018 10:47:00 PM (view original):
I think shoe would agree with what you two have posted. But I also think he is speaking on a level of what i discussed (and he's adding unneeded confusion by doing so)

"i think" what shoe is saying, is if a D2 has 15 visits and is listed at moderate, and a D1 has 14 visits and is listed at high, he is presenting it as "15 is more than 14 as far as the effort".

When really 14 visits from a D1 is worth way more than 15 visits from a D2. Which is more along the lines of what you guys are saying.

Does that help? Or are we all just chasing our tails?

No, dahsdebater and TJ are mistaken. We aren’t saying the same thing, and this mistake is important, because when people misunderstand this, they can get burned.

If a D1 school is “high” and the D2 school (red lighted) is “moderate” in the first session, and no other school is at VH, the D2 team is ahead in effort credit. If things stay exactly where they are, and the recruit is a late signee, the D2 will be VH and the D1 school will stay at high after the first cycle of RS2. However, they will still lose the recruit if it’s an early session signee, because they are red lighted. That’s what the red light does, that’s why it’s there.

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/7/2018 5:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/7/2018 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/7/2018 1:58:00 PM (view original):
If a D2 and D1 have a similar amount of recruiting effort they will both be moderate. if the D2 has significantly more theywill be moderate and the D1 will be low.

Looking at this again, and it’s not correct, assuming we’re talking about RS1. If the two teams have roughly the same amount of effort credit, and if scholarships have been offered, the D1 will be listed as VH, and the D2 as moderate. If it’s a late session guy and things stay exactly the same, the D2 team would move up to VH after the first cycle of RS2.

Its a little complicated and confusing, but very important for D2 coaches to understand that if they battle a D1 team for a D1 pool player who wants to sign in the first session, they have to get *way* ahead. The D1 team can take the recruit just by sneaking into signing range at high, which means the D2 has a very large lead in effort credit and still loses the player. It’s not a mistake you want to make.

"The D1 team can take the recruit just by sneaking into signing range at high, which means the D2 has a very large lead in effort credit and still loses the player"

I disagree with this. If the D1 school gets to high, the D2 didn't have a large lead in effort. Sure, the D2 probably spent more. And/Or had more AP and/or promises. BUT.... the value of the effort of a D2 school is NOT equal to the value of the effort of a D1 school.

D1 5 HV is much much greater than 5 HV from a D2 school

That’s what I mean by “effort credit.” I’m not talking about number of visits or AP. I’m talking about the adjusted value of everything that’s been done.

Whenever you see a battle where there is a high, but no very high, it means there is a red lighted school that is ahead in “effort credit”, ie total adjusted value of credit, but that team cannot currently sign the player. That team is definitely “ahead”, and significantly so. It needs to do even more though to knock the higher division “high” team to “moderate”, unless the recruit is a late signee, otherwise it will lose the recruit in the first session.

People sometimes underestimate or misunderstand the advantage higher division teams have in this regard, and either fail to use the advantage (as a D1) or get burned by throwing away a lot of resources on a player they won’t have a shot with. I’ve seen it happen a lot. It’s happened to folks I’ve mentored who didn’t listen to me, lol.