Posted by DougOut on 6/12/2020 6:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/12/2020 6:03:00 PM (view original):
1. Whataboutism
2. The assumption that only black people are his political enemies... you think that everyone he invited agreed with him?
3. The roundtable was specifically about policing, of course you want POC to be part of the discussion. Even if they disagree with him.
4. The phrase "political enemies" being used in this context is gross. It's a roundtable and a discussion.

1. ?
2. Never said it. YOU'RE A LIAR!
3. NO. We don't want Seattle types like Creuznot in the discussion.
4. YOU USE IT AND ABUSE IT EVERY SECOND OF EVERY MINUTE OF EVERYDAY.

ARE YOU SLEEPY TODAY OR ARE YOU JUST NATURALLY SLOW?

We don't want Seattle types in the discussion? wasn't aware you had anything to do with who was invited. That explains a lot.

Posted by tangplay on 6/12/2020 5:29:00 PM (view original):
Occam's razor probably applies in this situation. I hope you can remember me arguing your point a year or so ago. I've seen enough now.

it probably does. he probably is a racist, but I don't know, so I won't call him one.

I'm curious what line someone would have to cross for you to outwardly call them racist.

Would you never call someone a racist unless they outwardly say it, as you will never truly know what is in their heart?

Is it the forbidden "they aren't a racist until they use racial slurs" line?

You mean like mick?

Posted by DougOut on 6/12/2020 5:37:00 PM (view original):
For starters...they are his political enemies. Especially Creuznot.

I'd like to see the long list of conservative Republicans invited into the Obama roundtables.

Beer Summit, chuckles.

Posted by wylie715 on 6/12/2020 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 6/12/2020 5:37:00 PM (view original):
For starters...they are his political enemies. Especially Creuznot.

I'd like to see the long list of conservative Republicans invited into the Obama roundtables.

so what? You are holding a conference to learn about something, not hang out with your buddies. It just seems to me that if you are trying to learn about policing and race in a specific city, you would invite the people who run the police in that city...whether you like them or not. Otherwise, why bother? If you only invite your ***-kissing friends, you'll only get the same information you already have.

We are talking about trump here, not Obama. Who cares what Obama may or may not have done 4 - 8 years ago? Besides you and Trump, that is.

This.

Posted by tangplay on 6/12/2020 7:38:00 PM (view original):
I'm curious what line someone would have to cross for you to outwardly call them racist.

Would you never call someone a racist unless they outwardly say it, as you will never truly know what is in their heart?

Is it the forbidden "they aren't a racist until they use racial slurs" line?

well, if someone is running around in a white hood and robe its probably a pretty safe bet they are a racist. If someone kneels on the neck of a black guy for 9 minutes it is probably a pretty safe bet they are a racist. What if it is the forbidden "they aren't a racist until they use a racist slur"line? Is there something wrong with that? Sorry if you think so, Calling someone a racist is a pretty nasty thing to call someone. I won't do it unless I am convinced. trump may just be an idiot. Then again he may be a racist idiot. I'm pretty damn sure he's an idiot.

OK. I mean, there are a lot of white nationalists who don't run around in a hood and robe, who don't kill black people personally, and who don't use racial slurs in public, but also advocate for the genocide of black people. I would call them racist. I don't think being called racist is the end of the world for people, and I think that if one consistently advocates for policies and makes statements that degrade and deprive POC, it's fair to call them racist.

If you support harsh immigration policies because brown people are going to ruin the white culture and you don't want them in your neighborhoods, you're probably racist.

you call who you want to call a racist, and I will do the same.

Sure, I guess. I just think that your mindset is harmful. Like, I would rather offend some people by calling them racist than refuse to label a white nationalist a racist because they don't use the N-word and wear a suit and tie. That mindset causes legitimate harm to America (and, I would argue, the autonomy of both of us as Jewish people).

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/12/2020 8:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/12/2020 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 6/12/2020 5:37:00 PM (view original):
For starters...they are his political enemies. Especially Creuznot.

I'd like to see the long list of conservative Republicans invited into the Obama roundtables.

so what? You are holding a conference to learn about something, not hang out with your buddies. It just seems to me that if you are trying to learn about policing and race in a specific city, you would invite the people who run the police in that city...whether you like them or not. Otherwise, why bother? If you only invite your ***-kissing friends, you'll only get the same information you already have.

We are talking about trump here, not Obama. Who cares what Obama may or may not have done 4 - 8 years ago? Besides you and Trump, that is.

This.

We're talking about whether actions label Trump as a racist, not whether they are correct. Obviously the right thing to do is to invite all the principals to the roundtable, but denying any kind of platform to political opponents is a particular specialty of the president. We've seen him do it time and again, to people of all races. So I kind of agree with Doug's point - without looking up all the people who were invited, it's plausible that political and not racial motives could have been the deciding factor here. If a bunch of left-leaning whites got invited, that looks pretty racist. And incredibly stupid, even by Trump standards.

More importantly... there is some potentially important linguistic distinction here, though perhaps without any practical delineation. Trump is very image-conscious. It seems to be his primary concern. His public persona is neatly curated. There is very little doubt in my mind that his public persona has at the very least been designed to appeal to people with racist predilections. However, that wouldn't necessarily have to mean that he is a racist in his private life. I am totally convinced that he is a true xenophobe and believer in American exceptionalism in all senses, public and private. Racism I'm less totally sold on. Like I said, though, it's not a big difference in any practical sense. A person whose willing to pretend to be a racist for political gain isn't a lot better than a real racist. Maybe he's worse. Or maybe the same? I don't know. It's all bad.

I wouldn't make the distinction between someone who personally is a racist and someone who pretends to be one to their audience. Especially if they are the President.

Posted by tangplay on 6/13/2020 5:07:00 PM (view original):
Sure, I guess. I just think that your mindset is harmful. Like, I would rather offend some people by calling them racist than refuse to label a white nationalist a racist because they don't use the N-word and wear a suit and tie. That mindset causes legitimate harm to America (and, I would argue, the autonomy of both of us as Jewish people).

who exactly am I harming?

I want to be able to discredit white nationalist groups as racist because of their ideas and policy, not because of them using a word I don't like.

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/13/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Uofa2 on 6/12/2020 8:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/12/2020 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 6/12/2020 5:37:00 PM (view original):
For starters...they are his political enemies. Especially Creuznot.

I'd like to see the long list of conservative Republicans invited into the Obama roundtables.

so what? You are holding a conference to learn about something, not hang out with your buddies. It just seems to me that if you are trying to learn about policing and race in a specific city, you would invite the people who run the police in that city...whether you like them or not. Otherwise, why bother? If you only invite your ***-kissing friends, you'll only get the same information you already have.

We are talking about trump here, not Obama. Who cares what Obama may or may not have done 4 - 8 years ago? Besides you and Trump, that is.

This.

We're talking about whether actions label Trump as a racist, not whether they are correct. Obviously the right thing to do is to invite all the principals to the roundtable, but denying any kind of platform to political opponents is a particular specialty of the president. We've seen him do it time and again, to people of all races. So I kind of agree with Doug's point - without looking up all the people who were invited, it's plausible that political and not racial motives could have been the deciding factor here. If a bunch of left-leaning whites got invited, that looks pretty racist. And incredibly stupid, even by Trump standards.

More importantly... there is some potentially important linguistic distinction here, though perhaps without any practical delineation. Trump is very image-conscious. It seems to be his primary concern. His public persona is neatly curated. There is very little doubt in my mind that his public persona has at the very least been designed to appeal to people with racist predilections. However, that wouldn't necessarily have to mean that he is a racist in his private life. I am totally convinced that he is a true xenophobe and believer in American exceptionalism in all senses, public and private. Racism I'm less totally sold on. Like I said, though, it's not a big difference in any practical sense. A person whose willing to pretend to be a racist for political gain isn't a lot better than a real racist. Maybe he's worse. Or maybe the same? I don't know. It's all bad.

Hahah, congrats on playing yourself. My least favorite part of online message boarding is when someone I think is smart reveals himself. This message here? Yeah. Total ****. Yeah, when I think Trump, I think neatly curated. ******* dope.