topdog, I was close to 99% but waking up at 2:30AM to recruit din't help my vision any so I'm not sure.

I'm a little embarrassed now since I got my replacement recruit for Johns but still had scollies and a need for him so I jumped back on him and actually got him. Just like I planned it. :)
Thanks for all the info and comments and sorry Pallas, hope all this didn't throw you off, you did nothing wrong- I just didn't understand the presentation of "Considering".

I didn't see this thread until now.

I put 80 AP on Jones as soon as I found him again, which immediately unlocked the scholarship. Then I offered a Start and 20 Minutes because I didn't have any money left. My only hope was to get him for free before you could catch back up. Unfortunately for me, Late in this instance meant late late.

I don't know why the Considering List turned out the way it did, but that was what I did. Congrats on the win. I was sad to lose him in the first place.

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 8/4/2020 1:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mrslam34 on 8/4/2020 12:29:00 PM (view original):
I didn't pay too much attention to that guy but I think I remember seeing both of you at Moderate. When schools are at the same interest level they are listed alphabetically, so Dayton will always be listed above Indiana when both are at moderate.

Interestingly, this recruit transferred out of Indiana due to a broken promise and now it looks like he's heading back to Bloomington for round 2.

I've never really paid attention to this before, but HD let's you sign back your own transfers?

There's no way Indiana's previous recruiting effort would carry over, right? From when they first recruited & signed him?

I agree. I had actually forgotten that was a thing, and it absolutely shouldn't be.

No, none of my previous effort carried over; I started fresh like he was just another recruit.

Sorry for posting a link to the recruit but I had assumed from the OP that the recruit had already signed (which is why my puzzlement about missing on pallas' team page).

Any way, my opinion here is that if a recruit leaves a school where a coach *broke* a recruiting promise and transfers away, they shouldn't be considered by that recruit (or at bare minimum not be able to get better than moderate interest).

In what universe (RL or SIM) does a recruit take off and quit a school because a promise made to him was *broken* by a HC but then turns around shortly thereafter to sign back with that exact same coach?

Posted by buddhagamer on 8/4/2020 6:08:00 PM (view original):
Sorry for posting a link to the recruit but I had assumed from the OP that the recruit had already signed (which is why my puzzlement about missing on pallas' team page).

Any way, my opinion here is that if a recruit leaves a school where a coach *broke* a recruiting promise and transfers away, they shouldn't be considered by that recruit (or at bare minimum not be able to get better than moderate interest).

In what universe (RL or SIM) does a recruit take off and quit a school because a promise made to him was *broken* by a HC but then turns around shortly thereafter to sign back with that exact same coach?

I had a nice laugh when I got the "Indiana sounds like a real possibility for me. I'd be willing to hear about a scholarship" email four days after he pretty much told me to go pound sand.

Definitely a weird aspect to WIS.

Also, as I'm reading cp's initial post, here's exactly what happened: Since I found him again before the first 5 pm reveal, we both put AP on at the same time. His 60, my 80. He got close to unlocking a scholarship, I did. So like someone mentioned, he wasn't actually ahead, just listed first because it's alphabetical.

Posted by topdogggbm on 8/4/2020 3:51:00 PM (view original):
Does no one believe that 80 AP could've unlocked the HV as well? I think that's an obvious possibility. I do it all the time when in a pinch for a player. Unlocking order basically goes...... ship, HV, promises, CV. And sometimes enough AP can get the first two. If that happened, it's easy to see why he got pushed down so far on cycle two. Is that a possibility here?

cp49, you said you got close on the first cycle. How close? 99% close? If so, I could see 80 AP unlocking the ship and HV in one cycle IF the opponent is higher prestige (yes) and better preferences (I don't know).

If B+ fell short of opening a scholarship with 60, I don’t see any way A- could possibly open HV with 80 under any circumstance, certainly not with a recruit where preferences aren’t in play yet.

Posted by pallas on 8/4/2020 5:56:00 PM (view original):
I didn't see this thread until now.

I put 80 AP on Jones as soon as I found him again, which immediately unlocked the scholarship. Then I offered a Start and 20 Minutes because I didn't have any money left. My only hope was to get him for free before you could catch back up. Unfortunately for me, Late in this instance meant late late.

I don't know why the Considering List turned out the way it did, but that was what I did. Congrats on the win. I was sad to lose him in the first place.

You lost a guy with over 93% of the promised minutes, starting 25 of 26 games. That’s the big story here. You are, unfortunately, a cautionary tale.

There is no 80% rule.

Posted by shoe3 on 8/4/2020 7:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pallas on 8/4/2020 5:56:00 PM (view original):
I didn't see this thread until now.

I put 80 AP on Jones as soon as I found him again, which immediately unlocked the scholarship. Then I offered a Start and 20 Minutes because I didn't have any money left. My only hope was to get him for free before you could catch back up. Unfortunately for me, Late in this instance meant late late.

I don't know why the Considering List turned out the way it did, but that was what I did. Congrats on the win. I was sad to lose him in the first place.

You lost a guy with over 93% of the promised minutes, starting 25 of 26 games. That’s the big story here. You are, unfortunately, a cautionary tale.

There is no 80% rule.

I still think there is a roughly 80% rule, because I've seen it in the past. My mistake here, and where I didn't understand the system, was allowing myself to get that second compliant email. I assumed I had two emails before I had to get him back in the lineup. CS told me the first email is your only warning and the second email is more or less the death sentence.

So if I had to make myself a cautionary tale, it would be this: Don't get the second complaint email. You only get the one warning.

Posted by shoe3 on 8/4/2020 7:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pallas on 8/4/2020 5:56:00 PM (view original):
I didn't see this thread until now.

I put 80 AP on Jones as soon as I found him again, which immediately unlocked the scholarship. Then I offered a Start and 20 Minutes because I didn't have any money left. My only hope was to get him for free before you could catch back up. Unfortunately for me, Late in this instance meant late late.

I don't know why the Considering List turned out the way it did, but that was what I did. Congrats on the win. I was sad to lose him in the first place.

You lost a guy with over 93% of the promised minutes, starting 25 of 26 games. That’s the big story here. You are, unfortunately, a cautionary tale.

There is no 80% rule.

While I agree that the 80% rule should be treated as forum gossip and not a rule, the 80% rule was technically violated with Jones. Or at least how I interpret the "rule." Jones ended up starting 23 of 26 games in the regular season (88.5%) and 25 of 30 total games (83.3%), but he did not start in games 7, 8, or 9. So after 9 games he had only started in 6 (66.7%). My understanding of the "rule" has been that a player must always be above 80% at every point during the regular season. Jones would have been below 80% from games 8 through 14.

I am definitely surprised that Jones transferred and agree that he is a cautionary tale, but I just wanted to clarify.

Posted by mrslam34 on 8/4/2020 7:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 8/4/2020 7:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pallas on 8/4/2020 5:56:00 PM (view original):
I didn't see this thread until now.

I put 80 AP on Jones as soon as I found him again, which immediately unlocked the scholarship. Then I offered a Start and 20 Minutes because I didn't have any money left. My only hope was to get him for free before you could catch back up. Unfortunately for me, Late in this instance meant late late.

I don't know why the Considering List turned out the way it did, but that was what I did. Congrats on the win. I was sad to lose him in the first place.

You lost a guy with over 93% of the promised minutes, starting 25 of 26 games. That’s the big story here. You are, unfortunately, a cautionary tale.

There is no 80% rule.

While I agree that the 80% rule should be treated as forum gossip and not a rule, the 80% rule was technically violated with Jones. Or at least how I interpret the "rule." Jones ended up starting 23 of 26 games in the regular season (88.5%) and 25 of 30 total games (83.3%), but he did not start in games 7, 8, or 9. So after 9 games he had only started in 6 (66.7%). My understanding of the "rule" has been that a player must always be above 80% at every point during the regular season. Jones would have been below 80% from games 8 through 14.

I am definitely surprised that Jones transferred and agree that he is a cautionary tale, but I just wanted to clarify.

I've had guys get below 80% and complain. Then I got them back above 80% and got the Thank You email, so it definitely doesn't need to always be above 80%. I think sitting him so often so early in the season wasn't smart, for sure. But based on my exchange with CS, I really do think it comes down to that second email. Once I got that, it really didn't matter what I did after that; there was going to be a better-than-good chance he transferred.

Posted by pallas on 8/4/2020 7:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mrslam34 on 8/4/2020 7:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 8/4/2020 7:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pallas on 8/4/2020 5:56:00 PM (view original):
I didn't see this thread until now.

I put 80 AP on Jones as soon as I found him again, which immediately unlocked the scholarship. Then I offered a Start and 20 Minutes because I didn't have any money left. My only hope was to get him for free before you could catch back up. Unfortunately for me, Late in this instance meant late late.

I don't know why the Considering List turned out the way it did, but that was what I did. Congrats on the win. I was sad to lose him in the first place.

You lost a guy with over 93% of the promised minutes, starting 25 of 26 games. That’s the big story here. You are, unfortunately, a cautionary tale.

There is no 80% rule.

While I agree that the 80% rule should be treated as forum gossip and not a rule, the 80% rule was technically violated with Jones. Or at least how I interpret the "rule." Jones ended up starting 23 of 26 games in the regular season (88.5%) and 25 of 30 total games (83.3%), but he did not start in games 7, 8, or 9. So after 9 games he had only started in 6 (66.7%). My understanding of the "rule" has been that a player must always be above 80% at every point during the regular season. Jones would have been below 80% from games 8 through 14.

I am definitely surprised that Jones transferred and agree that he is a cautionary tale, but I just wanted to clarify.

I've had guys get below 80% and complain. Then I got them back above 80% and got the Thank You email, so it definitely doesn't need to always be above 80%. I think sitting him so often so early in the season wasn't smart, for sure. But based on my exchange with CS, I really do think it comes down to that second email. Once I got that, it really didn't matter what I did after that; there was going to be a better-than-good chance he transferred.

When did you get the two emails? That seven game stretch when you were under 80% had to have really hurt you and resulted in the second email.

I'm sure they came close together, in non-conference. Definitely didn't handle it ideally.

To be clear, he lost a guy who he played over 100% of the promised minutes. Pallas only promised 20. He lost him because of starts.

Posted by cubcub113 on 8/4/2020 9:24:00 PM (view original):
To be clear, he lost a guy who he played over 100% of the promised minutes. Pallas only promised 20. He lost him because of starts.

Well he was actually under 20 minutes *longer* than he was under the 80% start threshold. Remember you can't just use the Average minutes shown in games he played, as he didn't play *any* minutes in two games (#8 and #9).

	Game	Minutes	Start	AvgMins	%Starts
1	Pacific	26	1	26.00	100%
2	@Cal	20	1	23.00	100%
3	Western Michigan	24	1	23.33	100%
4	@Quinnipiac	20	1	22.50	100%
5	@Oral Roberts	19	1	21.80	100%
6	UCLA	21	1	21.67	100%
7	Hawaii	12	0	20.29	86%
8	Pittsburgh	0	0	17.75	75%
9	Louisville	0	0	15.78	67%
10	@NC State	30	1	17.20	70%
11	@Northwestern	20	1	17.45	73%
12	@Notre Dame	21	1	17.75	75%
13	Illinois	28	1	18.54	77%
14	Iowa	22	1	18.79	79%
15	Penn State	26	1	19.27	80%
16	@Purdue	28	1	19.81	81%
17	Northwestern	20	1	19.82	82%
18	@Michigan State	24	1	20.06	83%
19	@Illinois	26	1	20.37	84%
20	@Ohio State	21	1	20.40	85%
21	@Penn State	35	1	21.10	86%
22	Michigan	21	1	21.09	86%
23	Ohio State	25	1	21.26	87%
24	Purdue	28	1	21.54	88%
25	@Minnesota	26	1	21.72	88%
26	Wisconsin	26	1	21.88	88%
27	Notre Dame	26	1	22.04	89%
28	@Michigan State	26	1	22.18	89%

So for games 8 thru 17 (10 games), he didn't even reach the minumum 20 minutes promised. Pallas should look at his e-mail to see exactly when he received the 2nd complaint but it's likely before game 18.

[Edit]: I think that once you get the first complaint e-mail, you need to get above *all* promises as quickly as possible as I believe the recruit begins ratcheting up what is acceptable making it harder to satisfy his promises (ex. 81% instead of just 80%) as things drags on.