Posted by Indianajoinz on 8/16/2020 9:57:00 PM (view original):
So I’ve been at Fordham for 10 years and my prestige is a B. Am I at a disadvantage to say a Duke? I thought all teams were the same or does powerhouse schools have built in advantages?

If Duke in your world is a B+ or higher, which generally they always are, then yes you're at a disadvantage.

If you're not grasping what we mean.... the disadvantage mainly plays into recruiting. The higher prestige teams have an easier time getting high odds in rolls. You're not at a disadvantage on game night due to the prestige. If you're a B and Duke is an A+, that don't matter during the game. Team talent and game plan decides that.

Your question is a little indirect when you say "am I at a disadvantage?" because it depends on what area of the game you're asking about.

All D1 schools are not created equal. Your school went from a D to a B, which is nice work, as someone else mentioned. But Duke with an A+ baseline can have less success than you've had, but still have a higher current prestige. And that's due to the rubber band theory mentioned above. You have to perform extremely well on a consistent basis to move your prestige up. While Duke can lolly gag somewhat and maintain strength

Just a quick note on the baseline prestiges... I don't believe Georgetown is an A- baseline. Look at these past results (Georgetown in Allen):

67	bk41129	21-8	11-2	9-4	1-2	11-5		38	64	B+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
66	bk41129	17-12	7-4	9-6	1-2	11-5		35	22	B+	NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
65	bk41129	23-7	15-0	6-5	2-2	14-2	24	18	34	B+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
64	bk41129	25-6	11-1	10-4	4-1	12-4	19	37	95	B	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (2nd Round)

These are from awhile back but I don't think the baselines have changed since then (right?). There's no way you make 4 consecutive NT's with 3 consecutive 2nd round appearances without reaching your baseline. This leads me to believe that the Georgetown baseline is actually B+.

Edit: This guy finished ranked top-25 twice, the RPI's are decent, and I'm not sure if he had any players drafted, but he should've still been at his baseline.

theres c- prestige listed on the page a bunch of times too (for georgetown) which suggests they are at best a B+ baseline. i think this came up in one of these threads over the years but i don't remember what folks decided they were. i just pulled up the gtown from your link but usually checking several (or all) of the 10 worlds will show the lowest reasonable prestige and then baseline is 5 partial grades above that (1 partial grade less than 2 full grades)

Thanks for clarifying gil. I guess it would have been just as easy to find their lowest prestige and figure out the baseline from there. haha.

Would there be a way to program rolling baseline prestige grades based on real life performance into the code? I’d say in real life, recruits are considering success within their lifetime... so say, the past 20 seasons... with a weighted impact on the last 5.

Posted by mlitney on 4/8/2021 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Just a quick note on the baseline prestiges... I don't believe Georgetown is an A- baseline. Look at these past results (Georgetown in Allen):

67	bk41129	21-8	11-2	9-4	1-2	11-5		38	64	B+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
66	bk41129	17-12	7-4	9-6	1-2	11-5		35	22	B+	NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
65	bk41129	23-7	15-0	6-5	2-2	14-2	24	18	34	B+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
64	bk41129	25-6	11-1	10-4	4-1	12-4	19	37	95	B	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (2nd Round)

These are from awhile back but I don't think the baselines have changed since then (right?). There's no way you make 4 consecutive NT's with 3 consecutive 2nd round appearances without reaching your baseline. This leads me to believe that the Georgetown baseline is actually B+.

Edit: This guy finished ranked top-25 twice, the RPI's are decent, and I'm not sure if he had any players drafted, but he should've still been at his baseline.

I have Georgetown as a B in my list of HD baselines.
Same as Villanova, which could be the biggest gainer if RL baselines were updated.

compiled from actual HD results and beginning numbers in Knight & Phelan
I'm not exactly sure where some of these other baseline lists were grabbing their data.

Posted by gillispie on 4/8/2021 2:45:00 PM (view original):
theres c- prestige listed on the page a bunch of times too (for georgetown) which suggests they are at best a B+ baseline. i think this came up in one of these threads over the years but i don't remember what folks decided they were. i just pulled up the gtown from your link but usually checking several (or all) of the 10 worlds will show the lowest reasonable prestige and then baseline is 5 partial grades above that (1 partial grade less than 2 full grades)

Where did we get the knowledge/confirmation that baseline can only sway 5 partial grades away from its starting point? I'm not opposed to that. But I've never heard of that either. Is that confirmed from CS? Is it something that is just noticed as a coach following along and looking at it over the years?

Posted by topdogggbm on 4/8/2021 10:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 4/8/2021 2:45:00 PM (view original):
theres c- prestige listed on the page a bunch of times too (for georgetown) which suggests they are at best a B+ baseline. i think this came up in one of these threads over the years but i don't remember what folks decided they were. i just pulled up the gtown from your link but usually checking several (or all) of the 10 worlds will show the lowest reasonable prestige and then baseline is 5 partial grades above that (1 partial grade less than 2 full grades)

Where did we get the knowledge/confirmation that baseline can only sway 5 partial grades away from its starting point? I'm not opposed to that. But I've never heard of that either. Is that confirmed from CS? Is it something that is just noticed as a coach following along and looking at it over the years?

There's definitely a hard floor for prestige which is based on baseline prestige. I've never spent the time calculating the exact distance between the floor and the baseline though. But we know this because you can look at any sim controlled team with a 200+ RPI for 10 straight seasons, and they'll never drop any farther than a specific prestige. For example, my Georgia Tech team in Allen before I took over:

115	Sim AI	3-24	1-13	2-10	0-1	1-15		173	4	C-
114	Sim AI	3-24	1-11	2-12	0-1	2-14		242	56	C-
113	Sim AI	9-19	5-9	3-9	1-1	2-14		220	115	C-
112	Sim AI	2-25	0-13	2-11	0-1	1-15		267	74	C-
111	Sim AI	6-21	3-10	3-10	0-1	3-13		219	70	C-
110	Sim AI	6-21	4-9	2-11	0-1	3-13		252	111	C-
109	zorzii	3-24	1-13	2-10	0-1	1-15		283	103	C-
108	Sim AI	2-25	2-13	0-11	0-1	0-16		284	56	C-
107	Sim AI	5-22	2-11	3-10	0-1	2-14		224	82	C-
106	Sim AI	6-21	3-10	3-10	0-1	1-15		226	85	C-
105	Sim AI	4-23	3-10	1-12	0-1	2-14		281	128	C-
104	Sim AI	7-20	5-9	2-10	0-1	1-15		238	98	C-
103	Sim AI	7-20	5-8	2-11	0-1	3-13		215	81	C-

If there wasn't a hard floor, they definitely would have dropped into the D- area.

Now if you're talking about the specific floor for each team and if the distance between floor and baseline can vary, then I'm not sure of that, but I would have to assume its the same for all teams.

I believe that used to be true. You would never see an A+ baseline dip below B-.

Once they modified the prestige calculation (I think with HD v3) you saw a few dip below what was the previous basement.
I think it may have factored in the overall conference prestige differently.

Posted by oldwarrior on 4/8/2021 6:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mlitney on 4/8/2021 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Just a quick note on the baseline prestiges... I don't believe Georgetown is an A- baseline. Look at these past results (Georgetown in Allen):

67	bk41129	21-8	11-2	9-4	1-2	11-5		38	64	B+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
66	bk41129	17-12	7-4	9-6	1-2	11-5		35	22	B+	NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
65	bk41129	23-7	15-0	6-5	2-2	14-2	24	18	34	B+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
64	bk41129	25-6	11-1	10-4	4-1	12-4	19	37	95	B	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (2nd Round)

These are from awhile back but I don't think the baselines have changed since then (right?). There's no way you make 4 consecutive NT's with 3 consecutive 2nd round appearances without reaching your baseline. This leads me to believe that the Georgetown baseline is actually B+.

Edit: This guy finished ranked top-25 twice, the RPI's are decent, and I'm not sure if he had any players drafted, but he should've still been at his baseline.

I have Georgetown as a B in my list of HD baselines.
Same as Villanova, which could be the biggest gainer if RL baselines were updated.

compiled from actual HD results and beginning numbers in Knight & Phelan
I'm not exactly sure where some of these other baseline lists were grabbing their data.

OW, I'd love to see your list so it can be compared to the other lists that have floated around. Did you ever post it in one of the forum threads at some point?