Also filters are just too firm. If you wanna set a filter, make sure they're EXTREMELY low as far as your minimums. A hard cap.

I mentally is 40 as a mental barrier for D2 ATH. But would I really not take a 39 ATH, 100 SPD, 75 DEF, 85 BH, 92 PAS 85 ST guy if he was available? Absolutely I would. But if I put a filter on it at 40, I'd never see that guy. I just think filters aren't ideal. You can learn to eyeball filler players by using the home recruiting page and just looking at the ATH/SPD combos (or any other attribute) to start. A player with 26 red ATH, 54 orange speed, you're likely going to just run your eyes right past him on to the next recruit.

Posted by fletch1313 on 5/9/2021 12:29:00 AM (view original):
Mind blown, topdoggg. I tend to not even investigate players under C in WE when doing a general recruit search unless other rating letters are outstanding. When searching the recruit pool I tend to set search filters for 2-3 categories at minimum (no sh*tty D or ATH for bigs, for example). Without filters I don't know how I'd have the time to narrow the recruiting pool down. How do you narrow the field to focus on players you want without spending untold hours sifting through cr*p? Of course I'm a D2 coach with medium prestige so maybe I'm not your audience for this advice? I'm clearly not being open-minded enough based on your thoughts, I guess I should be at least considering players with D WE...

I agree with doggg here (kind of) in that hard filters will generally hold you back. Where I differ a little is that this is why I value the level 4 scouting so much. Once you have a really good feel for how the grades work (and especially how to manage the nuances of recruiting with higher division coaches who might have more experience and more information than you have) it might make more sense to eyeball it based on grades alone as doggg describes, but for my money, I still really love getting to L4 and don’t try to recruit anyone without it, unless I can’t help it. If you know *exactly* what the WE is, exactly what the core attributes are, and the minimum they’ll get to, and when, you're in a much stronger position.

Shoe I've NEVER signed a player that wasn't at L4. I'm not saying that I STOP at L3. I've tried to explain here in the past. When recruiting STARTS I only have my pool at L3. From a 200 D1 player pool camp at D2, and FSS'ing neighboring states. I have roughly $17k scouting budget left

Then AFTER one cycle in RS1 processes, where I start deciding who to approach first, that's when I start scouting players to L4, individually. But i do so by reasoning. A recruit that I tossed 3 AP on that has multiple D1 humans on him, I don't scout to L4. Because I'm likely not going to have a shot at him. A recruit that has only D3 coaches I will scout to L4 because if he's what i want in a player, i can easily get him. If I'm D2 and other D2 coaches are the only ones there, i scout those guys to L4 as well. Knowing those will likely be my battle targets. This is where I was pointing out that the considering list is so meaningful.

All that is just in that particular cycle after the first one processes. From there I just watch things. If I notice a player I threw AP at that had all D1s, but none of them are moving up in interest, I'll scout them up to L4 too if I feel it's reasonable for me to pursue. But my whole entire concept is based around saving my budget for only the players i can get. While also being able to save money to go back and look for sneaky finds later.

Sometimes if i see ONLY one D1 school leading and i consider myself to have a shot, I'll push for that guy late, if my other targets seem secure. If I have lots of budget left (which I ALWAYS do) and it's getting later in RS1, I'll reach out to further states with FSS and look specifically for players led by 1 D1, and scout that player up individually from L1 to L4. But I can't do stuff like that if I blow thru my budget before recruiting even starts, just to have a bigger pool.

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/9/2021 2:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachSpud on 5/9/2021 12:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 5/5/2021 6:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachSpud on 5/5/2021 5:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bigham23 on 5/5/2021 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Tranny squad...?

Transylvania.

spud back?

I've been playing GD pretty much all along, until a week or two ago. And I'll be back in the fall after Adam has cleaned up the game and/or they have the new GD replacement game out.

GD replacement game?!

8.7.3

Lot of discussion in the GD forums, and I think some discussion on one of the Majique YouTube shows.

Doggg what I’m saying is that when folks get L4 on a large pool of players right off the bat, you do all the eyeballing off of absolute (or very nearly so) information from cycle 1. I’m sure your method works fine for the way you want to play (assuming you enjoy it), but it’s more labor and time intensive than it probably needs to be, so someone reading about your process and feeling intimidated should know it doesn’t have to take all that.

Haha obviously. But two things about that.... 1) I was just addressing that you mentioned it being important to get to L4. And I was agreeing with that being important. And i do get to L4. And 2) if you try it, it's not near as labor intensive as it sounds. Not even close. Unless it's a coach that has tunnel vision and only looks at the players he's targeting. But your doing a disservice to yourself by not paying attention to what's going on around you. Patience can help. Instead of shooting your wad all from the get go. It's can be a helpful strategy for a coach that always finds themselves out of budget and in a jam. But as ANY method, it's not the only way to be successful

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/10/2021 6:26:00 AM (view original):
Haha obviously. But two things about that.... 1) I was just addressing that you mentioned it being important to get to L4. And I was agreeing with that being important. And i do get to L4. And 2) if you try it, it's not near as labor intensive as it sounds. Not even close. Unless it's a coach that has tunnel vision and only looks at the players he's targeting. But your doing a disservice to yourself by not paying attention to what's going on around you. Patience can help. Instead of shooting your wad all from the get go. It's can be a helpful strategy for a coach that always finds themselves out of budget and in a jam. But as ANY method, it's not the only way to be successful

LOL. What makes you think I’m “not paying attention to what’s going on around” me? Or “shooting your wad all from the get go”? Or are you talking about random coaches now?

For the pool of targets I end up going after, the big difference between us is that I front load a few more AP (like 5-8 or so usually) that first cycle on a handful of top targets, and only give 1 to a dozen or two backups. Sometimes I switch it up and send more to one or two guys I feel confident will not receive D1 attention, because it’s important to not be predicable. After the first cycle I use the considering list in much the same way you do to determine where attention goes thereafter, but what I never have to worry about is figuring out if a guy is *really* worth it or not. I reserve a little cash for second session *transfers* (usually) but never hand selecting further scouting by me,because it’s terribly inefficient to scout that way, and there’s just no good reason to do it that I can see. The only argument in its favor at D2 is that you can make your initial pool a little wider in terms of distance recruits and maybe see some “far from home” players you wouldn’t find otherwise in the D1 pool; but those are such a long shot for you, they’re hardly worth it most of the time. They’re the first ones you have to give up on, because you’ll never have the budget to battle for them if they’re good, and if no one else wants them, you probably have options just as good within a closer range already, if you’ve scouted efficiently from the start.

I’m not trying to talk YOU out of what works for you, assuming you’re having fun doing it. But when you say “hours,” some folks are going to see that and it’s going to get scary. It doesn’t need to take hours. If you scout efficiently and select 3-5 reasonable targets (ie realistic for your level) for every scholarship you intend to fill, paying attention to what goes on around you doesn’t need to take an hour or more, unless you’re just having so much fun you’re losing track of time. Clicking through the considering lists on those 10-25 players to determine if it’s an early bail or not can be done well in a handful of minutes.

Not to interrupt shoe & dogg (ha!), but I signed this guy and plan to get him as many starts & minutes as possible as a freshman. Think I already mentioned this, but we only have 4 humans (counting me) in our conf. and I scheduled mostly sims for non-conf. next season - and probably should've scheduled a little more aggressively. Not great for my SOS & RPI, but on the bright side it is great for an experiment like this. I think I'll be able to get him at least ~16 starts.

Planning to focus practice minutes on conditioning (aka athl, spd, st, dur for the noobs who might read this), def. and LP during his RS season.

Current plan is to try to RS as a soph. (keep him off the depth chart for 3 games & then RS approach), but that depends in part on how RS2 plays out (still have 4 openings) and how his development goes during his freshman season. If the RS blows up or if I don't like where he's at after his fresh or soph season I'll consider cutting him.
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?rid=5330909
(athl, spd, LP, per, BH, St & FT are greens; Reb, Def, Dur are blues; no reds or yellows)

Posted by bigham23 on 5/10/2021 1:10:00 PM (view original):
Not to interrupt shoe & dogg (ha!), but I signed this guy and plan to get him as many starts & minutes as possible as a freshman. Think I already mentioned this, but we only have 4 humans (counting me) in our conf. and I scheduled mostly sims for non-conf. next season - and probably should've scheduled a little more aggressively. Not great for my SOS & RPI, but on the bright side it is great for an experiment like this. I think I'll be able to get him at least ~16 starts.

Planning to focus practice minutes on conditioning (aka athl, spd, st, dur for the noobs who might read this), def. and LP during his RS season.

Current plan is to try to RS as a soph. (keep him off the depth chart for 3 games & then RS approach), but that depends in part on how RS2 plays out (still have 4 openings) and how his development goes during his freshman season. If the RS blows up or if I don't like where he's at after his fresh or soph season I'll consider cutting him.
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?rid=5330909
(athl, spd, LP, per, BH, St & FT are greens; Reb, Def, Dur are blues; no reds or yellows)

We kind of chatted about this last week, but I’ll say in public here, these fools gold kinds of players are tempting because of all the potential. When they have low work ethic, one of the most important things you can do very early on is deciding exactly what kind of player you want. If you go into development with just a generic “get as much OVR development as I can” approach, he will never be as valuable to you as he could be. With this guy in particular, the question is perimeter swing or traditional SF? He’ll never be a fast guard, nor will he be a good rebounder (you could spend a lot to basically make him a good rebounding guard, but why?). Worst case, by tourney time of his junior season, you have a high 60s Ath/Def guy with mid 50s speed manning SF, with *at least* some serviceable scoring ability, which could end up being very good. He could really go either way, (LP or per) it’s all about how much potential they have. You do have to figure out what you’re going to punt early so you can drill the cores, get that ath/spd/def higher as fast as possible so it doesn’t hurt you so much to start him, then you can start him all 4 years, NBD.

So I would get 20 or as close as possible on conditioning and defense this year, and bare maintenance on most others (punting rebounding). I’d put 5 on LP and Per for the first week or so and see if one grows faster. If it does, move the slower one down to 2-3, move the faster one up, and that’s the one you start developing more as defense and conditioning growth slow. I don’t necessarily punt the slower scoring one like I would rebounding, just because it’s so cheap to maintain, and you might get to it by his senior year, who knows?

Yup, your comments are why I said I'm planning to focus on conditioning, def., and LP (bc I've got 3 guys who will be really good per scorers, and think I'll need LP scoring more than per) - but I like your idea of putting minutes in both & seeing if one develops faster.

Also, part of the redshirt as a soph decision will be based on how much WE development he gets. I'd still be ~99% in the same boat if his WE were 28 now instead of 22, so if it's 28 after his freshman season I'll still have to weigh "how much is it worth redshirting a soph with 28 WE vs getting him as many starts & minutes as possible?"

So I'm guessing the same thought process that has me deciding to play him as a freshman will likely lead me to play him as a soph, and go down the path you mentioned. So I won't be surprised if he gets 15-20 starts per year all 4 years, only comes off the bench in postseason, and never redshirts lol.

Posted by shoe3 on 5/10/2021 10:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 5/10/2021 6:26:00 AM (view original):
Haha obviously. But two things about that.... 1) I was just addressing that you mentioned it being important to get to L4. And I was agreeing with that being important. And i do get to L4. And 2) if you try it, it's not near as labor intensive as it sounds. Not even close. Unless it's a coach that has tunnel vision and only looks at the players he's targeting. But your doing a disservice to yourself by not paying attention to what's going on around you. Patience can help. Instead of shooting your wad all from the get go. It's can be a helpful strategy for a coach that always finds themselves out of budget and in a jam. But as ANY method, it's not the only way to be successful

LOL. What makes you think I’m “not paying attention to what’s going on around” me? Or “shooting your wad all from the get go”? Or are you talking about random coaches now?

For the pool of targets I end up going after, the big difference between us is that I front load a few more AP (like 5-8 or so usually) that first cycle on a handful of top targets, and only give 1 to a dozen or two backups. Sometimes I switch it up and send more to one or two guys I feel confident will not receive D1 attention, because it’s important to not be predicable. After the first cycle I use the considering list in much the same way you do to determine where attention goes thereafter, but what I never have to worry about is figuring out if a guy is *really* worth it or not. I reserve a little cash for second session *transfers* (usually) but never hand selecting further scouting by me,because it’s terribly inefficient to scout that way, and there’s just no good reason to do it that I can see. The only argument in its favor at D2 is that you can make your initial pool a little wider in terms of distance recruits and maybe see some “far from home” players you wouldn’t find otherwise in the D1 pool; but those are such a long shot for you, they’re hardly worth it most of the time. They’re the first ones you have to give up on, because you’ll never have the budget to battle for them if they’re good, and if no one else wants them, you probably have options just as good within a closer range already, if you’ve scouted efficiently from the start.

I’m not trying to talk YOU out of what works for you, assuming you’re having fun doing it. But when you say “hours,” some folks are going to see that and it’s going to get scary. It doesn’t need to take hours. If you scout efficiently and select 3-5 reasonable targets (ie realistic for your level) for every scholarship you intend to fill, paying attention to what goes on around you doesn’t need to take an hour or more, unless you’re just having so much fun you’re losing track of time. Clicking through the considering lists on those 10-25 players to determine if it’s an early bail or not can be done well in a handful of minutes.

Wow this got way off track. I don't mean YOU. I mean coaches in general.

And I also don't take hours to do so. I just mean that I do when I have the chance.

I'm not combating you at all about anything. Not sure where we're getting tangled up

Posted by mlitney on 5/5/2021 10:37:00 AM (view original):
You're not going to get much out of a RS, but it should be a slight overall positive gain. The real benefit would be an extra season of IQ gain for him, which would keep him closer to the rest of your team in the following seasons.

That.

He just arrived on campus:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=4834994
(7 greens: athl, spd, LP, Per, BH, St & FT; and 3 blues: reb, def, & dur)

I've decided to play him. One of the big deciding factors for me is that his theoretical 5th year would come after back-to-back seasons with 5 seniors & then 6 seniors graduating. That 5th year would be wasted with presumably something like 5 sophs and 6 freshmen as teammates... but I think playing him this season means he will be more ready to compete for my realistic 2-year window that will be his true soph & jr seasons.

So any value of him being better his 5th year (& getting closer to his max potential) doesn't help me as much as getting the most development out of his 1st season so he's more helpful his 2nd & 3rd seasons before my current soph class graduates.

So, he'll be getting at least 22 very-undeserved starts this season to squeeze as much juice as I can get for his WE rating and overall development.