Posted by fatguyrd on 10/26/2022 6:32:00 PM (view original):
Grew up watching Banks, Aaron, Stargell, Bonds, Dick Allen, Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins. I just think we are missing something.

Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Frank Robinson, Vada Pinson, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock, Rickey Henderson, Maury Wills

Henry Aaron, Reggie Jackson, Daryl Strawberry, Doc Gooden, Mookie Wilson, Willie Randolph, JR Richard, Dave Winfield, CC Sabathia. And yes, Barry Bonds (Bobby too!).

It may not be due to injustice - no one has said that here. But it is tragic when we realize what we may indeed be missing, as fatguyrd has so poignantly put it.

Like nearly everything that is dominated by capitalism, it is mostly about money and profit, not necessarily due to racial intent. It costs less to recuit a zillion kids in the DR and train them so that 2 maybe make it to your team in the majors, than to train 20 American kids of any ethnicity in the US.

I know it is not popular, but I think that there should be a limit on the number of international players on US Major League teams (Japan, Korea etc. can do the same for their teams). Say a max of 5 on the roster at any one time. Have some homegrown players. This is not about ethnicity, but about making sure that teams that play in the US look something like the US. All honor to the Cuban national team or whatever, and of course no limitations of any kind on any US nationals/citizens/ or legal resident immigrant players from the US - but a limit to how many players recruited from overseas are on US MLB teams (and AAA etc.).

Joe Dimaggio wasn't recruited FROM ITALY. Juan Marichal WAS recruited from the DR though. We want some international players. But not whole teams of them. On top of which, if other countries' baseball hemorrage their best players en masse, it impovershes their own game as well, which fans will start to lose interest in, as their entire country becomes treated as a farm club for the US MLB. So, not exclusion, but a numerical limit on players directly recruited from overseas. And perhaps a draft of them, in which players in Korea, the DR, etc. have to decide if they are putting their hat in the ring to be drafted that year by a US MLB team, in which case their own national leagues can decide if there should be any disadvantages to that choice - no playing for a year - so it's a gamble if you aren't drafted, but that would be up to them.

In any case, all this is intended to provide more incentive - even need - to MLB teams to recruit in the USA, and spend the money and time to train US born players, regardless of ethnicity, which should bring back some balance. Plus, some increased interest - Harrison Bader being from Bronxville where my family lives has brought them, and their neighbors to Yankee Stadium more frequently to see their hometown boy play. And the interest in seeing Todd Frazier from my uncle's own Tom's River likewise. This is WHY Japanese, Korean, Venezuelan etc. fans and media follow their own hometown players in the MLB as well.

Posted by fatguyrd on 10/26/2022 6:32:00 PM (view original):
Grew up watching Banks, Aaron, Stargell, Bonds, Dick Allen, Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins. I just think we are missing something.

Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Frank Robinson, Vada Pinson, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock, Rickey Henderson, Maury Wills

I'm with you, but there are plenty of African Americans playing in MLB we can watch. We aren't missing out like America was pre-1947. It just happens that none are in the WS this year. Those greats from years past weren't in the WS every year. Banks never made it to the WS.

As long as teams are playing the best players, and not excluding anyone for arbitrary reasons, we aren't missing anything simply because one series of the year happens to not have African American players.

Michael Harris II is one of my favorite players, as is Freddie Freeman. I'm disappointed neither made the WS, but I don't feel I'm missing anything particularly, since I got to see them play all season, and especially since we get to see Harper, Verlander and Alvarez, etc. go at it.

Who's gonna tell him that Freddie Freeman is white?

Seriously, though, MLB has been investing in growing baseball in urban areas, which they hope will help promote both black and white domestic players making the Show, but that initiative isn't old enough yet to yield results.

I'm not sure why this is even an issue. As long as the door is equally open to all, let the kids play the sport they want to play. Respect their choices, and enjoy their talents. It almost sounds like some of you guys want to round up people of color and force them to play MLB for you so you'll feel inclusive and better about yourselves. It's really kind of a bizarre prerogative.

No quotas, please...you really aren't suggesting a limit of 5, telling a 6th kid we have enough, play someplace else? That's really not gonna fly...

Posted by DoctorKz on 10/29/2022 4:06:00 PM (view original):
No quotas, please...you really aren't suggesting a limit of 5, telling a 6th kid we have enough, play someplace else? That's really not gonna fly...

Amen. That really sounds like what some here are driving at, whether they realize it or not.

I think a diverse participation is what Professor might be wanting, which is fine. I know the Cardinals have been dissed at times for not having many black players. They've had Asian, Latino, so it's not likely a race issue. It's an issue of who they have under contract. Of who is available. You can always have complaints, and can always do better. Sometimes it might be supply and demand? I don't know what the answer is.

Posted by DoctorKz on 10/29/2022 4:06:00 PM (view original):
No quotas, please...you really aren't suggesting a limit of 5, telling a 6th kid we have enough, play someplace else? That's really not gonna fly...

That is 150 players recruited directly from overseas on 30 teams, total, not counting at all the number born overseas but living as immigrants in the US who would not be subject to the international recruitment limits.

When baseball was 16 teams, times 25 players per team, there were 400 players in ALL of the MLB. That meant everyone else was told "play somewhere else kid".

And in this case "somewhere else" is the place they are already playing, and their home country to boot - Japan, Taiwan, the Dominican Republic, Cuba etc. Is it an absolute right for every baseball player in the world to play in the US MLB (including Toronto)? Are fans in other countries allowed to have good or great players to watch play in their countries and to look up to, be inspired by?

How is all great players from other countries playing for American (and Toronto) MLB teams helping baseball around the world? How is it helping baseball in the US?

It ONLY helps one stakeholder - a particular team that gets that great player from somewhere else - at the expense of that foreign team's fans, team, league, baseball culture, and at the expense of any American (citizen or immigrant resident) that might have played and had their local fans cheer their accomplishments, fostering the baseball culture in their town, neighborhood, city or ethnic group in the US or Canada.

And since other teams can also recruit players from overseas, it is a fleeting and momentary advantage, but it does increase the inequality of competition since richer teams have an advantage in the world as a whole in recruiting and money offerings, so in the end it hurts baseball net.

I think many of them want to play against the best, and the potential earnings play a role. No different than a Swede or Czech wanting to play NHL hockey, instead of Swedish Elite or KHL..Why would I want to go to Japan to play for the Yoshi Hot Dogs? Ovechkin and Jagr could have stayed overseas, but the NHL is the pinnacle of professional hockey...if I'm a poor kid pitching in Venezuela or Cuba, you're going to tell me I can't come to America to play ball, that I gotta go to Havana or Puerto Rico to make a living chasing my dream?

We've let 1.8M illegals enter this year alone, but maybe a few hundred ballplayers aren't welcome? Some battle you're picking...Are they on your lawn?

A conservative telling a liberal to allow people to chase a dream, instead of telling a kid to stay in his lane. I can't make this **** up...Wylie, please tell mudbone1969 to come back, I need his help...

LMAO.

Posted by DoctorKz on 10/30/2022 12:06:00 PM (view original):
I think many of them want to play against the best, and the potential earnings play a role. No different than a Swede or Czech wanting to play NHL hockey, instead of Swedish Elite or KHL..Why would I want to go to Japan to play for the Yoshi Hot Dogs? Ovechkin and Jagr could have stayed overseas, but the NHL is the pinnacle of professional hockey...if I'm a poor kid pitching in Venezuela or Cuba, you're going to tell me I can't come to America to play ball, that I gotta go to Havana or Puerto Rico to make a living chasing my dream?

We've let 1.8M illegals enter this year alone, but maybe a few hundred ballplayers aren't welcome? Some battle you're picking...Are they on your lawn?

A conservative telling a liberal to allow people to chase a dream, instead of telling a kid to stay in his lane. I can't make this **** up...Wylie, please tell mudbone1969 to come back, I need his help...

I keep waiting to hear about how there aren't enough African Americans in the NHL.

Posted by DoctorKz on 10/30/2022 12:06:00 PM (view original):
I think many of them want to play against the best, and the potential earnings play a role. No different than a Swede or Czech wanting to play NHL hockey, instead of Swedish Elite or KHL..Why would I want to go to Japan to play for the Yoshi Hot Dogs? Ovechkin and Jagr could have stayed overseas, but the NHL is the pinnacle of professional hockey...if I'm a poor kid pitching in Venezuela or Cuba, you're going to tell me I can't come to America to play ball, that I gotta go to Havana or Puerto Rico to make a living chasing my dream?

We've let 1.8M illegals enter this year alone, but maybe a few hundred ballplayers aren't welcome? Some battle you're picking...Are they on your lawn?

A conservative telling a liberal to allow people to chase a dream, instead of telling a kid to stay in his lane. I can't make this **** up...Wylie, please tell mudbone1969 to come back, I need his help...

Well said. It really is an exercise in mental gymnastics to get prof's POV.

Merit aside, I'm not sure why he thinks international players help only one stakeholder. MLB has an international audience, and international players help expand that revenue market for MLB, which in turn helps all teams and their player development.

Bengie Molina has broadcast Cardinals games to the Caribbean for several years now, which attracts a large audience to MLB. It is the dream of many Latin American kids to come here to play ball. Guys like Yadi, Pujols, Pedro, Beltre and Big Papi are worshipped by those kids.