Twist & Clones Round 2 - Writeups Topic

League 7, Pick #18
1975 Baltimore Orioles
Here are the Browns/Orioles seasons selected before my turn in league 7 (I already have my Phillies team):
1999 Orioles (footballmm11)
1972 Orioles (cstrohmier)
2010 Orioles (Jtpsops)
1974 Orioles (redcped)
1908 Browns (kstober)
1921 Browns (firesalt)
1922 Browns (mllama54)
1907 Browns (ejstockman)

I only built one Browns team - 1921... great offense... terrible pitching. They were gone before my turn anyway. I knew I was going to wait on this franchise since there isn't a great deadball team and there are multiple choices from the 1960's to 1970's I would be fine with. I also really liked 1996. When my turn came, I finally narrowed down my two choices between 1975 and 1996. I love Eddie Murray, Roberto Alomar, Bobby Bonilla (all switch hitters) plus Ripken, Palmeiro, B.Anderson and Hoiles - this team is going to lead the A.L. in scoring. Mike Mussina isn't a terrible SP3 or SP4, but I just couldn't stomach him being my SP1 and SP2. David Wells as an SP3? Scott Erickson as SP4? Ewww. Then I see the modern RPs with 1 IP/G and I decide to pass on them. I go with 1975 - Palmer and Cuellar provide 1030 SP innings. The offense has got Ken Singleton, who I love. The weak spot is 1B where Don Baylor will play, although I may expirement with Brooks Robinson or Doug DeCinces playing out of position. This team has great defense at 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF (Grich, Belanger, DeCinces, Blair, Bumbry). I am excited to get such a solid team this late in the draft. Prediction: 86 wins.
12/31/2024 8:09 AM (edited)
League 2, Pick #19
1941 Brooklyn Dodgers
Here are the Dodgers seasons selected before my turn in league 2 (I already have my Red Sox team):
1959 Dodgers (3dayrotation)
2017 Dodgers (barracuda3)
2018 Dodgers (footballmm11)
1916 Robins (glowguy)
1962 Dodgers (nocomm999)
2015 Dodgers (Bill_James47)
1932 Dodgers (contrarian23)
1968 Dodgers (DarthDurron)
1958 Dodgers (calhoop)
2023 Dodgers (redcped)

Well, clearly I had no chance to get 1962 (nice pick nocomm999). I had plenty of Dodgers rosters built so I had a decent selection, even picking this late. I considered 1964, but no Duke Snider meant that Frank Howard was the team's best power hitter. He was so bad for my 1961 Dodgers team in round 1 that I benched him very early in the season. I built a 2019 roster that looks good on paper, but way too modern for my taste. I had a 1979 team built with lots of SPs (Sutton, Reuss, Messersmith, Rau, Welch, Hooton) but the offense was too right-handed (Ferguson, Garvey, Lopes, Guerrero, Russell, Baker). I had an 1989 team built with some great pitching (Hershiser, Tudor, Valenzuela, Howell, Wetteland) but the offense had to start Willy Randolph, Lenny Harris and Jose Vizcaino. Ugh...

I finally settled on a team that I had built in round 1. 1941 has awesome hitting - I can't even use all the great hitters since I have too many 1B/OF/DH types with Camilli, P.Waner, Reiser, Medwick and Galan). The pitching features Whit Wyatt, Freddie Fitzsimmons and Curt Davis. Frankly, the pitching is bad. I decided to play in Palace of the Fans for a couple of reasons. (1) Let's try to get the opponent's (better) SP knocked out of the game early where we know the bullpen will blow eventually up. And (2) my very strong defense will have an opportunity to make more plus plays: maybe the opponent's lesser defense will extend big innings. I'm not expecting a great W-L record, but this team is in a weak NL East (1916, 1932, 1941, 1943) so 82 wins could be enough to take the division. I will predict 78 wins.
12/31/2024 8:11 AM (edited)
League 1, Pick #21
1966 New York Yankees
Here are the Yankees seasons selected before my turn in league 1 (I already have my Giants team):
2007 Yankees (jfranco77)
1938 Yankees (barracuda3)
2019 Yankees (calhoop)
1937 Yankees (crazyamos)
1922 Yankees (redcped)
1999 Yankees (toysboys)
1921 Yankees (Taxman2008)
1929 Yankees (footballmm11)
2003 Yankees (emanes10)
1927 Yankees (danidon)

Like the Dodgers, I had built a bunch of Yankees teams, many of which got taken - none of them jumped out as a must have. Before I made the trade and was on the clock, I was debating between 1925, 1940 & 1966. After the trade, I was still debating between 1925, 1940 & 1966.

My knee-jerk reaction was to go after one of the few Ruth-Gehrig teams still available and grab 1925. But the pitching is terrible. Garland Braxton is decent but unlike my mediocre 1933 round 1 team, there is no Lefty Gomez, no Wilcy Moore, no Johnny Allen and no Red Ruffing. No thanks. 1940 has some great pitching, with Spud Chandler, Lefty Gomez and Tony Bonham. Also Red Ruffing, Johnny Allen and Marius Russo. Offensively, they have Joe DiMaggio, Charlie Keller, Red Rolfe and Bill Dickey. The main reason I passed was the weakness at 1B (Babe Dahlgen). Frankie Crosetti is pretty weak offensively at SS. I ended up going with 1966 due to the strength of the lefty pitching, which will come in handy facing all the Ruth teams.. Fritz Peterson, Whitey Ford, Al Downing, Ken Holtzman, relievers Bill Henry and Steve Hamilton - all lefties. Bob Friend, Stan Bahnsen, Hal Reniff and Dooley Womack are my righties. What about the offense? How about Mantle, Mantle, Murcer & Maris. Elston Howard catching, Roy White at 1B. Horace Clark at 2B. Tom Tresh covers 3B and SS. By the way, this team has *six* switch hitters in the starting lineup! I can't believe this is the only Mickey Mantle team in the league. Despite picking 11th, I think this team can advance to round 3. Prediciton: 86 wins.
12/29/2024 9:20 PM (edited)
League 3, Pick #22
1982 St. Louis Cardinals
Here are the Cardinals seasons selected before my turn in league 3 (I already had my Indians team):
2004 St. Louis Cardinals (footballmm11)
1942 St. Louis Cardinals (toysboys)
2006 St. Louis Cardinals (chewy3344)
1934 St. Louis Cardinals (calhoop)
1950 St. Louis Cardinals (gworear)
1921 St. Louis Cardinals (kstober)
1964 St. Louis Cardinals (mllama54)
2009 St. Louis Cardinals (DarthDurron)
1969 St. Louis Cardinals (3dayrotation)
1925 St. Louis Cardinals (Jtpsops)

Damn... I really was hoping 1969 would make it to me. I really wanted the Gibson/Carlton combo. When it finally got to me, my choices were 1949, 1981 and 1982. Actually 1981 and 1982 are similar, with the main difference being Templeton vs Ozzie Smith at SS... so it was really 1949 vs 1982. 1949 has some nice pieces with Red Schoendienst playing 2B and 3B, Stan Musial and Enos Slaughter covering 1B and OF. The pitching staff has Brecheen, Pollet, Wilks, Munger, Brazle, Hearn, Lanier, Staley... basically 3 SPs with 200+ IPs and a bunch of guys with 116-132 IPs. This seemed like a managerial pain in the butt. I decided on 1982, but I'm not really happy about it. Andujar, Kaat, B.Forsch are SPs with Sutter, A.Rincon, Bair, Littell as RPs. The offense has D.Porter, K.Hernandez, Herr, Smith, Oberkfell, McGee, G.Hendrick, L.Smith. This is a great $100M roster, but a terrible unlimited cap roster. Will will be ranked last in offense and near the bottom in pitching. Is it too late to change to 1949? Prediction 69 wins.
12/29/2024 9:38 PM
League 8, Pick #21
1923 Cincinnati Reds
I was the last person to take a Reds team. These were the Reds seasons taken before me.
1919 Cincinnati Reds (glowguy)
1918 Cincinnati Red (ejstockman)
1987 Cincinnati Reds (footballmm11)
1924 Cincinnati Reds (ronthegenius)
1976 Cincinnati Reds (bigsteve12)
1991 Cincinnati Reds (barracuda3)
1940 Cincinnati Reds (SteveIzzy)
1963 Cincinnati Reds (84champs)
1922 Cincinnati Reds (chewy3344)
1933 Cincinnati Reds (contrarian23)
1927 Cincinnati Reds (danidon)

As bummed as I was with the Cardinals pick, I am excited about this pick. The 1921 Reds from round 1 won 103 games. I had built a 1923 and 1924 team that I really liked. But I didn't take them early b/c I also liked 1940, 1976, 1986 and 1987. There were way fewer Senators/Twins seasons that I liked so I went that direction with my first pick in this league. But my second pick in this league was pretty low and there was an insane run on Reds teams. Four of the first five teams picked in this league were Senators/Twins. Then ten of the next eleven were Reds teams.

So it's the morning of Dec 27... we are waiting for pick #14. Eight Reds teams have been taken and all my pre-built rosters have been taken except 1923 and 1986. I can't believe 1923 is still on the board. Somebody for sure is going to take them. I was going to be gone for a while, so I left a 2-team proxy (1923, then 1986) but I had no backup teams if they both got taken. I see contrarian23 post about how great a pick 1924 was... and he picks in front of me. No chance I get 1923. Maybe I can get 1986. chewy takes 1922 at pick #14. Whew - that was close. Now contrarian23 is up. He takes 1933! Now at least I will be guaranteed 1923 or 1986. danidon takes 1927. OMG - 1923 slid to me as the last Reds team, after 1924 went as the 4th Reds team. I am thrilled! This roster is not that different from the 1924 roster. Not only that, but the division worked out perfectly as I am in the East and 1924 is in the Central. Pitching is Luque, Rixey, Donohue, Benton. Offense is Fonseca, Roush, G.Harper, Daubert, G.Burns, Hargrave. Defense is A+ range everywhere. Prediction: 92 wins
12/29/2024 10:00 PM (edited)
Posted by schwarze on 12/29/2024 8:26:00 PM (view original):
League 7, Pick #18
1975 Baltimore Orioles
Here are the Browns/Orioles seasons selected before my turn in league 7 (I already have my Phillies team):
1999 Orioles (footballmm11)
1972 Orioles (cstrohmier)
2010 Orioles (Jtpsops)
1974 Orioles (redcped)
1908 Browns (kstober)
1921 Browns (firesalt)
1922 Browns (mllama54)
1907 Browns (ejstockman)

I only built one Browns team - 1921... great offense... terrible pitching. They were gone before my turn anyway. I knew I was going to wait on this franchise since there isn't a great deadball team and there are multiple choices from the 1960's to 1970's I would be fine with. I also really liked 1996. When my turn came, I finally narrowed down my two choices between 1975 and 1996. I love Eddie Murray, Roberto Alomar, Bobby Bonilla (all switch hitters) plust Ripken, Palmeiro, B.Anderson and Hoiles - this team is going to lead the A.L. in scoring. Mike Mussina isn't a terrible SP3 or SP4, but I just couldn't stomach him being my SP1 and SP2. David Wells as an SP3? Scott Erickson as SP4? Ewww. Then I see the modern RPs with 1 IP/G and I decide to pass on them. I go with 1975 - Palmer and Cuellar provide 1030 SP innings. The offense has got Ken Singleton, who I love. The weak spot is 1B where Don Baylor will play, although I may expirement with Brooks Robinson or Doug DeCinces playing out of position. This team has great defense at 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF (Grich, Belanger, DeCinces, Blair, Bumbry). I am excited to get such a solid team this late in the draft. Prediction: 86 wins.
Lee May is a pretty good 1B option there already. Not that you need my help, lol.
12/30/2024 12:07 AM
1942 Cardinals, Pick #3

This is the #14 overall pick in the draft and my first. 1912 Cubs would have been my #1 pick overall as well. 1993 Braves would have been my #2 pick as also. Even though I didn't have a Cardinals team in the first round, I could see that 1940, 1941 and 1943 were all taken. So, like the 1912 Cubs and the 1993 Braves, similar teams were taken in round one but were open in round 2. The 1942 Cardinals didn't have Mize like 1941 nor Brecheen like 1943. That's the biggest differences. 1940, 1941 and 1943 were all sub .500 teams in round 1 so maybe this does not bode so well for me. Other teams I considered: 1920 Cubs.

1999 Yankees, pick #10
I didn't like the pitching of the 1920 or 1930's Yankee teams. I could have picked a Giants team, but the pitching was really bad on the Bonds teams that were left and I didn't want to compete with Schwarze or Pedro for those early years. Also, those mid century Giants teams did not fare well in the first round. I did consider the "Bronx is Burning" 1977 or 1978 (which no one took), but knew there was a chance I'd still be stuck with a Babe Ruth team in my division. Ultimately, I decided to go with a solid 1999 team that had both Clemens, Pettitte and Cone. It's a very schwazeish team with lots of switch hitters. I'm very happy with this pick. I also considered: 1929, 1978, 2003 Yankees and 2006 Giants.

1914 White Sox - pick #14
I'm glad to hear that schwarze passed on this team. I couldn't believe they were still available. Their hitting straight up sucks. Fournier is pretty good but the rest of the team is below average. I got Ping Bodie playing 2B with his D/C fielding. But this pitching is better than any staff I had in round one. I got double Ed, double Reb, and double Cicotte. Those 6 should account for the majority of the innings pitched. Teams I also considered: I wanted the 1934 White Sox, but they were nabbed by crazyamos right before my pick. I also was looking at the 1989 and 1990 Cubs to get a double Maddux, but the rest of those teams did not look good.

1994 Braves - pick # 12
I know that the 1993 Braves are better because they have Chipper and I don't. But we're talking about a team that is almost identical to the first team picked in this league. With luck, I could beat the 1993 Braves, but even if I come in 2nd to them, we could still end up with a .550 record which is good enough to get me to the next round. Other teams I considered: 1971 Tigers which I'm a little surprised went undrafted.

1971 Twins - pick # 22
I don't expect much out of a late pick, but I'm pretty happy with this one. I did see that schwarze's 1970 Twins were doing well in round one and this team is nearly identical minus Luis Tiant, which admittedly is a big piece to be missing. The starting pitching is below average, the bullpen is a bit better. The offense is pretty strong. I also considered 2002 and 2003 Twins to get a double Johan Santana.


12/30/2024 1:03 PM
Posted by redcped on 12/30/2024 12:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by schwarze on 12/29/2024 8:26:00 PM (view original):
League 7, Pick #18
1975 Baltimore Orioles
Here are the Browns/Orioles seasons selected before my turn in league 7 (I already have my Phillies team):
1999 Orioles (footballmm11)
1972 Orioles (cstrohmier)
2010 Orioles (Jtpsops)
1974 Orioles (redcped)
1908 Browns (kstober)
1921 Browns (firesalt)
1922 Browns (mllama54)
1907 Browns (ejstockman)

I only built one Browns team - 1921... great offense... terrible pitching. They were gone before my turn anyway. I knew I was going to wait on this franchise since there isn't a great deadball team and there are multiple choices from the 1960's to 1970's I would be fine with. I also really liked 1996. When my turn came, I finally narrowed down my two choices between 1975 and 1996. I love Eddie Murray, Roberto Alomar, Bobby Bonilla (all switch hitters) plust Ripken, Palmeiro, B.Anderson and Hoiles - this team is going to lead the A.L. in scoring. Mike Mussina isn't a terrible SP3 or SP4, but I just couldn't stomach him being my SP1 and SP2. David Wells as an SP3? Scott Erickson as SP4? Ewww. Then I see the modern RPs with 1 IP/G and I decide to pass on them. I go with 1975 - Palmer and Cuellar provide 1030 SP innings. The offense has got Ken Singleton, who I love. The weak spot is 1B where Don Baylor will play, although I may expirement with Brooks Robinson or Doug DeCinces playing out of position. This team has great defense at 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF (Grich, Belanger, DeCinces, Blair, Bumbry). I am excited to get such a solid team this late in the draft. Prediction: 86 wins.
Lee May is a pretty good 1B option there already. Not that you need my help, lol.
I looked at Lee May but his OBP is terrible. I generally prefer .370 OBP / .490 SLG over .330 OBP / .550 SLG even though OPS of .880 is better than OPS of 860.

Although, I may reconsider b/c May is a much better fielder.
12/30/2024 1:39 PM
League 5, Pick #7
2021 Chicago White Sox

I was in both the Cubs and White Sox leagues in round 1. My 1916 Cubs were the 27th ranked team overall in the first update after the All-Star break in Rd.1 and ended up being my only team to miss round 2. The early Cubs teams were deadly in round 1, and I didn't feel like playing in the Cubs league in round 2. The 2021 White Sox had something unique that I didn't want to pass up. This is the only year that Kimbrel (ERC# of 0.94 & 1.14) was on the White Sox, and with Liam Hendricks (ERC# of 0.90 and 1.71) as well, I probably have the 3 best relievers in the league. Not to mention, Foster (1.43) , Heuer (1.29), Tepera (1.58), and Reynaldo Lopez (1.74) all have seasons with sub 1.75 ERC#. This team has about 550 relief innings that are elite. So the goal is to play close games and hope for the best. The modern White Sox starting pitching is not great, as I can attest to as my Rd. 1 1997 White Sox were led by Doug Drabek and still made round 2. However, Keuchel is one of the better options over 200 IP and I pieced together a pretty good rotation with Giolito and Rodon. I just need them to get it to my bullpen with a lead.

The offense is ugly. Especially since the other team I was looking at was the 1934 team with Al Simmons and Appling. I do have great defense all over the field with the likes of Abreu, Anderson, Moncada and great outfield speed and range with Robert, Eaton and Billy Hamilton II. This team will be pretty tough to reach base against, I just need to find a way to score some runs, so I'm hoping other teams had a tough time finding pitching. Not to mention a very short bench since I needed all 13 pitching spots to get to 1,460 innings. I may play a lot of the season with some fatigue for my hitters

We will make our home in Target Field because if there is one weakness on this modern staff, it's potential to give up a few homers. I don't have that much power either, so I don't think it hurts my run scoring potential, and I need these games to be close. I was expecting more modern teams in this league (my division ended up with a 60's, 70's and 90's team). I'm not sure if that hurts or helps, but the 2022 CWS did win the WS in Rd.1, so that helps with confidence. This could go very wrong as I don't know if the offense will be competitive.
12/30/2024 3:07 PM (edited)
I had two teams and both advanced. My 2005 Yankees finished 28 overall in round 1, so I was disappointed to learn that I would only have the 4th pick in round 2. Luck of the draw.

League 6, pick 4
2021 Atlanta Braves
My other team is the 14th pick, so this team is the easiest path to round 3. I don’t want to mess it up. My philosophy was to look for deep pitching. A great starter helps you win in the postseason, but pitching depth helps you succeed in a 162-game season. This is about advancing to round 3, so I wanted a decent S3 and S4 more than a stud S1. I really wanted a Cobb Heilmann team, but the pitching was just awful on the available teams. In fact, good pitching was scarce all up and down the list for Detroit, and where it was there, the hitting was not. Reluctantly, I turned to the Braves. 1994 was the only option to get Maddux, but unlike ’93, this team had no Chipper Jones. I hate the idea of taking the 2nd best team in a division with the 4th overall pick, so I had to pass. 2021 and 2022 are both similar teams with strong offense and deep bullpens. I like the SP better on the 21 team; it’s not great, but deep. In fact, 2 SPs with <100 IP will likely be RPs for me. They tend to have higher floors than RPs with only 1 inning per game in them that the WIS seems to hate. Outside of Chris Martin, there’s nothing awesome, just steady. But with a lineup of Freeman, Ocuna, Azuna, and Sandoval, I should be able to win some games in the late innings. The infield has real solid defense too. The other teams in this division were picked 14th, 21st, and 24th, so this team should have a good chance to win the division.

League 7, pick 14
1921 St. Louis Browns
I have two reasons to hope I picked the right team. Schwarze said this was the only Browns team he built and mllama54, picking right behind me, said he wanted this team, and he took 1922. That they both like this team bodes well for me. I almost always take pitching over offense, and that leaves me unexcited, because I always enjoy good hitting over good pitching. It’s more fun, but not the best path to success. So, I am happy that my two teams have great hitting. The Browns have only hitting, unfortunately. But I figured the other teams in my division won’t be tossing any no-hitters either. Now I see that, with the draft almost finished, I will probably have the ’07 and ’08 teams in my division, and both have strong pitching. This could go south for me. With Sisler, Baby Doll, and Ken Williams, I just have to hope my hitting is superior enough to overcome the deficiencies in my pitching staff. I am not predicting this team to advance, but if things fall my way, they have a chance to slip in.
12/31/2024 12:02 AM (edited)
Top 16 Draft, Pick #8: 2004 Cardinals
I only had one pick in the top 16, picking right in the middle at #8. I went through some (not all) of the franchises, prioritizing the ones that had the top options relative to others in their franchise. I did not rank across them before my pick, but some that stood out included 1912 Cubs (#1 overall to schwarze), 2017-18 Dodgers (2017 went to barracuda3 at #12), 1989 Pirates, 2010 Braves, and the 2004 Cardinals. When it got to my turn and I evaluated these teams together (only the Cubs had gotten taken prior to my pick), I liked the 2004 Cardinals the best. This team's offense is amazing, though Rolen will have to play out of position at 2B. The pitching is not elite but pretty good. And I have a massive gap between this team and the rest of the remaining Cardinals options. The one thing that gave me slight pause was my 2007 Cardinals were disappointing in Round 1 but the 2005 Cardinals, who also had Larry Walker, did very well.

League 1, Pick #4: 2001 Giants
I had the 2001 Giants as the best team left for the franchise and my 1998 Giants did well in Round 1. When both schwarze and pedro ahead of me picked early 1900s Giants teams that made my choice easy to go to the other end of the spectrum. I'm sure some of the deadball teams like schwarze's 1907 will give me some trouble, but many of those teams were picked last round. Obviously the calling card here is the offense, led by Bonds but with support from Kent, Aurilia, Galarraga, and Eric Davis. 3B is a bit of a problem, will either play Kent OOP there or go with a lesser Aurilia/Pedro Feliz. The pitching isn't great, especially lacking in quality starters after Jason Schmidt--we'll have to roll with Russ Ortize and Shawn Estes for over 400 innings. But Schmidt and a good pen led by Robb Nen should be enough to let the offense do its thing.

League 4, Pick #3: 1989 Pirates
Once again, my top-rated team from the modern era is still available while others went deadball or early 1900s. In this case, pedro went 1914 and ronthegenius went 1909. All of 1987-89 are still available and I rated 1989 the best of the trio mostly due to the presence of Jay Bell to man SS and 2B. I had the 1991 Pirates in Round 1 and they did well. This team is very similar with eight starting spots taken by 4 pairs of clones--Bonds, Van Slyke, Bonilla (1B/3B), and Bell. Mike LaValliere will hold down most of the catching duties again as well, though no Don Slaught to pair with him this time. The pitching staff is solid, though not spectacular. Nobody, even in the bullpen, has an ERC below 2.00 but Drabek and Rick Reed are a pretty solid pitching combo to provide the bulk of the innings. Like in San Francisco, this group should do enough to let Bonds and company mash our way to victory.

League 2, Pick #6: 2018 Dodgers
I had the 2017 and 2018 Dodgers neck and neck. I dont' necessarily WANT to be in the same division with barracuda3 and his 2017 version but I think 2018 is good enough to deal with that and just play for a wild card and advancement spot. Last round, I did the same as my 2022 Dodgers could not compete with 2021 but still won 90+ and won the wild card. Like most Dodgers teams of this era, it starts with the pitching and specifically Kershaw and Jansen. Like my 2022 team, I'll add two Buehlers for some bulk. This team also gets to add Kenta Maeda's stud 2020 season plus Rich Hill's 110-inning 2016 season (though we lose Gonsolin). Per usual, there's a bunch of elite bullpen arms to join Jansen. The offense is always a juggling act with this era and specifically the Dodgers. The infield will be really good between Seager, Machado, Utley and maybe Justin Turner. Kemp and Bellinger in the OF and Grandal/Barnes at catcher. The last few spots will be between Justin Turner, Puig, Muncy, and a second Bellinger. We'll see how to best fit the remaining puzzle pieces, but the offense should be fine overall.

League 7, Pick #3: 1999 Orioles
Last round, I was eyeing a few 90s/00s Orioles teams before they got taken and I ultimately ended up going with 1966. Going into this round, I had 4 teams from this era at the top (1994, 96, 99, and 2000). While 2000 had better hitting and 1994 had better pitching, I felt 1999 had the best balance. The offense should be quite good with Belle, Ripken, Will Clark and Brady Anderson. Will likely play Ripken OOP at 3B but otherwise the offense fits well together with good positional defense and nice left/right balance. The pitching is solid as well with Mussina and Guzman anchoring the rotation and a bullpen full of clones (Rhodes, Orosco, and BJ Ryan each 2x). With the early St. Louis Browns being so poor, there shouldn't really be any deadball teams in this league so while I've had my struggles with Ripken, he and Belee and company shouldn't be neutralized too much I would hope.

League 5, Pick #8: 1987 Cubs
I was researching both Chicago franchises at the same time. The three Cubs teams taken (1912, 2006, and 2016) were all in my top 6. Of the other 3, two were 1931 and 32 with Hornsby-led offenses but very little in the way of pitching. Given they could end up in the 1912 division, the poor offense/defense balance and the fact that similar Cubs teams didn't do well in Round 1, I moved off of them. That left me with 1987. It's a fine team but the fit is clunky. Shortstop is a mediocre Shawon Dunston and there is not 3B to speak of so Sandberg will have to play out of position there. That means two Sandbergs and I rarely have good luck with him. OF/DH/1B is a combination of Andre Dawson (another guy I haven't done well with), Palmeiro, Leon Durham, and Jerry Mumphrey. Again, a lot of solid pieces but they all have some issues. The pitching comes with two Greg Madduxes and...not much else. We'll rely on Sutcliffe, Tewksbury, and maybe even Scott Sanderson or Jamie Moyer plus a bullpen led by Frank Dipino and Lee Smith. Overall, I felt this was the prudent choice--a highly-rated team in an era that had some success last round (barracuda3's 1988 team crushed, 1986 was okay) that avoids the other top Cubs teams and with a big dropoff after this tier. But I just didn't love the team and really wanted the White Sox team I was looking at. But I pulled the trigger on this Cubs team.

TRADE:
Since I had buyer's remorse and 11 picks until my next League 5 selection, I looked into trading back up. I found that calhoop had Pick 9 in League 5 and there were two other leagues where he picked below me. Given I was moving up 11 spots in League 5, I offered him to move up in both League 2 and 4 for a total of 11 spots. In those leagues, I had already taken one team each so was down to Red Sox and Athletics and didn't have a team in mind in either, so I was fine moving down there. He graciously accepted.

League 5, Pick #9: 1995 White Sox
I felt there was more relative depth in the White Sox draft so it was more important to take the 87 Cubs but in building out the 95 White Sox I liked them better. Three of the 4 White Sox teams taken were early 1900s (1920, who I had as the top team, plus 1905 and 1912), so I wanted to go more modern or at least mid-century to the 60s teams. 1995 was my top-rated choice remaining and 2nd-best overall among White Sox. The bulk of the offense is clones of the Big Hurt, Tim Raines, and Robin Ventura. Ray Durham and John Kruk join the party. The weak spots are shortstop (Ozzie Guillen) and catcher (Mike LaValliere, he's everywhere it seems), plus I probably need one of Lance Johnson or Mike Cameron for their glove and speed. The pitching staff will have just one pitcher over 200 innings, a rarity for a pre-2000 team. I'll get 100+ innings from Righetti x2, Hammaker, and Deleon x2, but also get to enjoy the days of 90-inning relievers--I will roster 5 guys with between 85 and 99 innings. Not sure how this team will do--1993 and 1997 did okay last round, 1994 did not--but after going with 2022 last round, I'll be happy to get to what should be a more fun team.

League 7, Pick #12: 1984 Phillies
I had 1984 as my to-rated Phillies team. While we'll likely have to contend with the 1980 team in our division, the only other team I looked at was 1978, but 1984 fit much better. Obviously, Schmidt is the cornerstone. The rest of the offense will be just okay with Juan Samuel and Ivan Dejesus in the infield and Garry Maddox, Lezcano, and Al Oliver in the outfield. Bo Diaz x2 makes for a fine catcher. The pitching, though, is pretty good. Two Carltons anchor the rotation but its the bullpen that's the real gem here with Tug McGraw x2, Larry Andersen x2, plus a really nice Jim Kern long relief season. Overally, the Phillies seem pretty balanced in this round, but I'm happy to avoid the division with both pedro (1910) and schwarze (1912) with their deadball pitching.

League 8, Pick #7: 1987 Reds
Only 1918 and 1919 had been picked among Cincy teams at this point. I had a couple 80s and 90s teams atop my board. While 1986 gets Pete Rose and Tony Perez, 1987 gets Jerry Reuss for some better pitching so I went with 87 for the better balance and because I wouldn't use all of Rose and Perez anyway. A pretty balanced offense with Paul O'Neill, Larkin, Eric Davis, and Dave Parker the main bats. Kal Daniels may join the party as well. Larkin likely gets cloned and spends some time at 2B (with Ron Oester) and 3B (with Buddy Bell). There's Bo Diaz again as my catcher, I guess I'll just have him and LaValliere on most of my teams! The pitching staff has Reuss x2 and Soto x2 as the starters with 9 relievers joining them. Luckily guys like Jeff Montgomery x2, John Franco, and Bill Landrum have 80+ inning seasons to help. Not really any studs on this team but good depth and balance on both sides of the ball. I expect the Reds league to be pretty competitive across the board.

League 4, Pick #15: 1969 Athletics
This was one of the leagues I traded back in, moving from pick 10 to 15. Funny enough, calhoop took 1988 Oakland, a team I was considering since I had success with 1987 in Round 1 (they got me my lone Top 16 pick). But I had a few other teams ahead of 1988 anyway. The main issue here is that 1910-14 are 4 of the best teams but likely to be all in the same division. 1912 was picked last round and 1910, 11, and 14 all went in a row in this draft. I had 1913 rated highly but they were the worst of that quartet and likely in that division, so you're basically playing just for advancement at that point (NOTE: schwarze took them the pick right after me.) That moved me to more modern teams but there really aren't any 90s or later teams left that stood out. 1969 was the next-best team and while I likely have to be in a division with both 1971 and pedro's 1973, that's at least a little bit less daunting than the 1910s division. It's interesting--in many other leagues, my rankings diverge a lot from the pick order, but this A's draft had 7 of my top 8 teams go in the first 10 picks. Anyway, 1969 has really good pitching with Vida Blue, Catfish Hunter, and Rollie Fingers all getting cloned and making up 80% of my innings. They'll likely do the same for 1971 and 73. The offense has a lot of lefties with Reggie, Francona, and Rick Monday all getting cloned. Gene Tenace, Sal Bando and Joe Rudi provide some right-handed pop. Bert Campaneris and Dick Green (plus a Bob Johnson short PA season) will bat 8th and 9th because we're required to have a SS and 2B by the rules of baseball.

League 3, Pick #8: 1998 Indians
I was really considering 3 eras here--deadball, 1940s/50s, and modern. I had just come off a Round 1 with the 1950 Indians so while the hitting is nice, I don't want to go through another 162 with the Bobs (Feller and Lemon) again. I probably should have gone with 1904--the rotation is fantastic with Joss, Bill Bernhard, and Earl Moore all getting cloned, plus an offense led by Nap Lajoie. I had them rated higher but passed on them because the offense is a bit lacking behind Lajoie and potentially close competition (either with 1906 and 07 if they are picked or with pedro's 1913 and crazyamos's 1919 teams if not). 1998 should mash, however. Can we play defense? With ManRam in the outfield, Thome at 3B, and Travis Fryman somewhere, probably not! But a lineup of Loftons and Mannys and Giles and Thomes...yeah should be fun. the pitching is...precarious. The bullpen is very good and two Dwight Goodens atop the rotation is nice. But the last 300+ innings will be thrown by some combination of Charles Nagy, Chad Ogea, or Ron Villone. Not great, especially with lackluster fielding at many spots behind them. Maybe will get helped out with an easier division, but also may get thrown in with some tough 40s/50s teams if no other modern era teams get picked.

League 6, Pick #5: 2010 Braves
This league took a little while to get going over the holidays. I had 1993 2nd overall with Maddux, but I actually had 2010 as my top choice. After that I had some of the recent Atlanta teams with Acuna and company, plus 1994 and 2011-12 so really I guess 3 versions of modern Braves teams: 90s (Maddux), 10s (Chipper), and 20s (Acuna). The reason I liked 2010 the best is you get great balance--good hitting and good pitching. Certainly the 93-94 Braves have the best pitching but I had 2010 as the next best. And offensively, had them 2nd behind a Hank Aaron team. This is the one year that Derrek Lee and Freddie Freeman overlap and while I will have to play them in the OF some, I've done that quite a few times with Freddie and other good fielding 1B like him. Chipper is here but he'll actually play OF and DH to make room for Troy Glaus's bat (and A range) at 3B. Martin Prado (2B), Yunel Escobar (SS), and Brian McCann/David Ross (C) will fill the difficult positions, though I did consider Chipper's SS season. The only true OF I'm planning to roster are Nate McLouth and Melky Cabrera. The pitching staff does have clones of Derek Lowe and Tim Hudson for the rotation, but this is all about the bullpen--four pairs of clones of Kimbrel, Billy Wagner, Saito, and Jesse Chavez. My last spot will go to Kris Medlen's 138 IP, 1.71 ERC# season to get us up to 1450 innings. I'm excited about this team.

League 1, Pick #13: 1929 Yankees
Despite their success throughout all the decades, I was mostly focused on two eras for the Yankees: the Ruth/Gehrig years (1920s and 30s) and the recent Jeter/Judge years (mid-1990s to now). I went 2021 Yankees last round, and while they did fine, I really wanted to go to the Ruth years. I actually had four of the top 5 seasons being 1920s Yankees--those are the top 4 offenses left for the Yanks but very little pitching. The 1921 and 22 seasons have a little more pitching but a little less hitting and they went earlier. The one modern team I would have considered was 2007 but jfranco rightly took them early in the Top 16 draft. There were also some post-Ruth seasons taken with 1937 and 38. But 1929 was my #1 choice and while I considered 1925 for a little more pitching, you lose Lazzeri and Dickey and don't have a real SS. Yes, my ptiching is note ideal with most of my pitchers having ERC# in the high 2s. But let's not talk about that. I'm sticking this team in Coors and making opponents outscore us. It actually worked quite well for my 1928 Senators last round! The lineup is Ruth x2, Gehrig x2, Lazzeri x2, Dickey, Combs, and Lary/Koenig at SS. With Ruth and Gehrig having 750-ish PA and plenty of bench bats, fatigue won't be an issue. If more 1920s teams get picked, we may see teams averaging 10 runs per game!

League 6, Pick #15: 1925 Tigers
My top two-rated Tigers teams were 2007 and 2015, both were gone in the top 5 DET selections. Four the next 5 rated teams were directy from adjacent years (2005-06 and 2016-17), so I didn't want to select an inferior team within my own division if I could help it. As it turns out, no other 2000s teams were selected. The other team in the top 7 not from the 2000s was 1925, an all-offense, no-pitching Cobb-led team. At this point, the earliest DET teams were 1909 (schwarze), 1919, and 1946. I decided to roll the dice, knowing my pitching will be poor but the offense should be by far the best in the league. I actually don't have 1925's pitching that much worse than some of these other early teams. pedrocerrano ended up taking a similar team in 1934 and we ended up in the Central division with them, 1922 and 1946. As for the offense, I'll start clones of Cobb, Heilmann, and Gehringer so my top 6 hitters will be awesome--no 3B of note so Gehringer will play OOP there. My catcher (Bassler), shortstop (Topper Rigney) and last OF spot (Manush/Wingo/Fothergill) round out the lineup, with Rigney being the only real weak spot. The pitching is certainly not great but 400+ innings from Dutch Leonard lead the way with Syl Johnson, Hooks Dauss, and 16x16 superstar Earl Whitehill's one decent relief season joining in. Given the great offense and plentiful at-bats and innings, I'm sticking this team in the Palace and hoping to outscore everyone. Excited to see this one play out.

League 8, Pick #19: 2023 Twins
With a late pick here, 4 of my top 5 rated teams had gone and most of the strength here is in the early 1900s. But my #1-rated team was actually 2023 which also did me the favor of avoiding the Walter Johnson years. As I researched this team, I quickly realized why they weren't picked. The pitching has some studs led by Kenta Maeda, Caleb Thielbar, and Emilio Pagan and clones of both Dallas Keuchel and Sonny Gray are actually pretty good volume for this era (each have one season over 200 IP and another over 170). But then the problems begin--there are a abunch of stud relief season but with 50 or fewer innings and not much more in the way of starter-level seasons. To complicate matters much further, the offense is a very difficult puzzle. The best seasons are almost all short on PAs--Buxton, Correa, Gallo all have their best seasons with under 500 PA and many with under 300. This became a balancing act going back and forth between hitting and pitching, taking roster spots from one or adding in players with more volume. I ended up going with just 11 pitchers--this got me 5 elite relief seasons (2 each from Thielbar and Pagan plus 1 Giffin Jax) plus the 4 clones of Keuchel and Gray and the stud Maeda season. For my last spot, I went with Chris Paddack's 141 IP season but have to eat his 1.02 HR#. My offense is crazy--I have just two hitters over 600 PA, my double play combination of 21 Correa and 21 Jorge Polanco. I have 4 other players with over 500 PA (OFers Kepler and Gallo are two of them), but two of those are my catcher clone of Christian Vazquez meaning his 2019 season will have to play a fair amount at 1B (C/A+) and 3B (D/C+). My 7 best hitting seasons are all under 500 PA and 6 of them are under 400--this includes 17 Correa, two Buxtons, another Gallo, and a smattering of other random good partial seasons. I ended up with only 6143 PA and 1417 IP so I am very light--to compensate, I stuck the team in Safeco. The Twins generally are a very pitching-heavy group, so outside of the 1929 and 1930 teams there shouldn't be many high-scoring games. Hopefully that means we can make this puzzle work for 162 games.

League 2, Pick #23: 2007 Red Sox
My final pick was the 2nd-to-last pick in League 2 but I got my top-rated Red Sox choice. I had 2005, 06, and 09 also in my top 7 but only 2005 was taken. I'm guessing this team wasn't as enticing to others because of the lack of SP after Schilling. But man, the bullpen is amazing--two Gagnes, two Papelbons, two Brendan Donnellys, and other studs like Javier Lopez and Joel Pineiro. Certainly the starting pitching leaves something to be desired but at least you get almost 500 innings from Schilling clones. I finished with a Jon Lester, Tim Wakefield, and Clay Buchholz season. It's not traditional but this should be one of the best pitching staffs in the league. The offense certainly has some bats but the defense is just okay. Two Mannys, two Youks, two JD Drews. I only went with one David Ortiz and added Ellsbury in CF, Pedroia at 2B and Julio Lugo at SS. Varitek and Mirabelli tandem behind the plate. Our division spans 1988 through 2007 and feels like this group should do well, though curious how 2005 stacks up.

This was part of my 3-league trade, so in the end I was able to secure my top CHW choice at the time (1995) in exchange for dropping down in this draft and my OAK draft. I got my top pick here so no issue dropping back. I'm not sure what I would have done in OAK, but I did end up with 4 other teams in my relative era going between (I picked 1969 and the 4 picks that went between my original pick and actual pick were 1971, 1973, 1986 and 1988). Given I had success with 1987 last round, maybe I missed out on 86 and 88. And if 71 and 73 are better than 69, then I got the 3rd-best choice of this era.
1/1/2025 8:43 PM
I just noticed that despite footballmm11 and I having 16 teams each (one for each franchise), we are in the same division just one twice.

My division split is 12 East, 3 Central, 1 West
football's split is 0 East, 5 Central, 11 West

Clearly, he prefers modern teams and has no problem trying to juggle teams with low inning totals. Not me. give me seven deadball SPs, each with 250+ innings and I'll eventually figure out which ones to start and which one will pitch in relief.

Oh, leagues we are in together... League 1, AL Central. LOL - we are 37 years apart. League 5, AL West... we are 33 years apart.
.
footballmm11 - 1929 New York Yankees
crazyamos - 1937 New York Yankees
barracuda3 - 1938 New York Yankees
schwarze - 1966 New York Yankees
.
schwarze - 1962 Chicago White Sox
DarthDurron -- 1974 Chicago White Sox
footballmm11 - 1995 Chicago White Sox
emanes10 - 2021 Chicago White Sox
1/1/2025 9:17 PM (edited)
I was going to look into that as well when I saw your comment on your team so thanks for checking. The one other pre-1950 team I took (besides 1929 Yankees) was the 1925 Tigers and in that one you have 1909 but are in the East and I'm in the Central.

My 2023 Twins would drive you bonkers. They're even a bit much for me and I enjoy the juggling, but this one will be extreme.
1/1/2025 9:52 PM
Posted by schwarze on 12/29/2024 9:39:00 PM (view original):
League 3, Pick #22
1982 St. Louis Cardinals
Here are the Cardinals seasons selected before my turn in league 3 (I already had my Indians team):
2004 St. Louis Cardinals (footballmm11)
1942 St. Louis Cardinals (toysboys)
2006 St. Louis Cardinals (chewy3344)
1934 St. Louis Cardinals (calhoop)
1950 St. Louis Cardinals (gworear)
1921 St. Louis Cardinals (kstober)
1964 St. Louis Cardinals (mllama54)
2009 St. Louis Cardinals (DarthDurron)
1969 St. Louis Cardinals (3dayrotation)
1925 St. Louis Cardinals (Jtpsops)

Damn... I really was hoping 1969 would make it to me. I really wanted the Gibson/Carlton combo. When it finally got to me, my choices were 1949, 1981 and 1982. Actually 1981 and 1982 are similar, with the main difference being Templeton vs Ozzie Smith at SS... so it was really 1949 vs 1982. 1949 has some nice pieces with Red Schoendienst playing 2B and 3B, Stan Musial and Enos Slaughter covering 1B and OF. The pitching staff has Brecheen, Pollet, Wilks, Munger, Brazle, Hearn, Lanier, Staley... basically 3 SPs with 200+ IPs and a bunch of guys with 116-132 IPs. This seemed like a managerial pain in the butt. I decided on 1982, but I'm not really happy about it. Andujar, Kaat, B.Forsch are SPs with Sutter, A.Rincon, Bair, Littell as RPs. The offense has D.Porter, K.Hernandez, Herr, Smith, Oberkfell, McGee, G.Hendrick, L.Smith. This is a great $100M roster, but a terrible unlimited cap roster. Will will be ranked last in offense and near the bottom in pitching. Is it too late to change to 1949? Prediction 69 wins.
I still can't figure out how the '34 Cardinals were not a round 1 pick.
1/2/2025 10:40 AM
Well I managed to get 3 teams into the 2nd round. I'll take it.

League 1, pick 1 - 2007 Yankees

Having learned little from my mistake of not making the playoffs with my 2006 Yankees team (77-85 in a tough modern division) I decided to double down and pick the 07 team. Partly because I'm hoping we've cleared the decks of all the other modern teams. This crew has Roger Clemens, but they don't have Bernie and Sheff. Bernie didn't do that well in round 1, so hopefully we can survive with a little more Abreu and Melky and a season of Johnny Damon instead. Both A-Rod's were outstanding in round 1 and they're back again. Aside from the 2 Clemens anchors (replacing Randy Johnson) I've also got Pettite so I don't have to rely quite so much on Mussina. This time I remembered to pick the right Cano season which should help. Still a stacked lineup with 2 aces (theoretically). I have zero clue where to put this team, with Andy and one Roger being good at keeping the ball in the park, but the other Roger and Mussina being bad at it. We also have high averages and some speed but our range isn't great. Throwing a dart and picking Comiskey to tamp down the Ruths just a bit.

League 8, pick 12 - 1943 Senators

At this point in the draft, I couldn't really find any Reds teams I liked enough to tangle with the Big Red Machine teams or the Walter Johnson Sens teams. The 43 Sens have, of all people, a random one game appearance from Lefty Gomez, whose two big years anchor the rotation. They've also got Johnny Niggeling (closer cookie extraordinaire), Early Wynn, and the lesser Dutch Leonard, plus a good swingman season from Mickey Haefner. Not an elite pitching staff, but at least competent. The offense is deep, with Harlond Clift and Bob Johnson, as well as Mickey Vernon and Stan Spence. Jerry Priddy can competently play both MI spots. While this team wouldn't have looked great in round 1, I think they're solid enough to do well in round 2. I put them in Chase Field since they're pretty balanced overall and we can afford to play in a non-deadball park since a lot of the pitchers do OK keeping the ball in the park.

League 3, pick 12 - 1999 Indians

I really wanted the '34 Cards here and almost picked them in the "first 16" draft. Once I missed out on them I decided to stay away from the Cards. I was torn between the 08 Naps (with a surprisingly non terrible offense and Addie Joss) and this 99 Indians squad. The 08 Naps would have been a pretty safe pick. The 99 team is not. They could be anything. A lot of the 90s Indians teams in Round 1 had an ace - Hershiser or Dennis Martinez or someone like that - which this team does not have. Jamie Navarro is probably our ace, with Jaret Wright, 2 Nagys, and a Colon rounding out the rotation.They do have a reasonable bullpen with Karsay and Steve Reed and Wickman. Hopefully we can win some 7-6 games. The offense is led by Lofton, two Mannys, Thome at 1B and 3B, Robbie at 2B and DH, Vizquel and Sandy. Will we end up in a division where we can run and hit some homers? Maybe? The other 3 teams are 52, 98 and 2017.
1/2/2025 11:07 AM
◂ Prev 1234 Next ▸
Twist & Clones Round 2 - Writeups Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2025 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.