hope they bother to read this thread - among a lot of complaining there were various darn good ideas

Even a response saying, “We hear you and we’re looking into it. An official response is coming when we know exactly how it’s going to work”, would be better than the Simon and Garfunkel act that the mods are pulling right now… But I’m a patient person, so I’ll leave it at that and not fill an entire page like the turd that is Nick.Bennett. I can say that though bc he’s my lil bro and he’s earned that status over 30+ years!

Posted by shoe3 on 6/26/2021 2:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by salag on 6/24/2021 10:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/23/2021 12:19:00 PM (view original):
As initially proposed, Chris and Adam and everyone else involved KNOW it is not an ideal setup. They've seen the push back from the community. They're reading each and every idea they are presented here. They're evaluating all areas.

Nothing will take place until they announce a second, more well thought out set of criteria. We all need to relax and wait until the next set of firing guidelines get presented....... and THEN we can flip out some more Haha

Was it said that they are working on a second set of firing guidelines? I must have missed it?

Nothing official. Adam told me, via CS ticket response, that they intend to have a grace period for coaches taking over new programs, but did not elaborate. But he also expressed confidence that the requirements were “achievable” according to the data, though this was before most of this thread (and others) developed. So it’s still very much a mixed bag, where it stands right now, IMO.

This is true. I've discussed things with them as well in tickets and email. They are working on fine tuning. And I believe they aren't commenting now because as soon as they do, threads like this develop. They are getting the entire plan together, and then will announce.

THEY ARE LISTENING. And reading. That's confirmed. So if you have ideas, present them! They read these threads. They discuss (or factor in) the concerns we have, and they're putting in the work. I can guarantee it will not launch as originally stated!

I feel guilty even reviving this thread - because I fear the impending negativity against the admins - but I just figured I’ll post it so nobody not in the discord is out of the loop.

Adam joined in on friendly conversation and was immediately asked about this topic. He mentioned they have been reviewing “threads, emails, and support tickets and are looking at it but worst case scenario what the post said is the intended world of firings come November/December, but the plan is to tweak some based on the feedback” while also noting “Obviously from the thread, folks believed that they were too difficult, so if there were tweaks it would be to make them more liberal”.

Outside of that, it seemed he wasn’t planning on discussing specifics of tweaking because “I think the thing is no matter what we say folks are going to have their opinions and so I would rather tell you that we will listening and looking at feedback” and that the community should “assume that the things we commuted are the requirements right now”.

Only quoting so I didn’t imply anything Adam didn’t intend. If anyone in the discord thinks I still took something out of context, I’ll edit.

As someone who has chatted with Adam in voice chat before, I vouch for him as this is all stuff he mentioned prior to making any notable changes. He understood that this is a large community and any change would have overwhelming feedback from all different directions. At the end of the day, I’m thrilled he’s making changes to a game which I feel really needed them. Adam is someone who DOES care about the community. A lot. He’s not trying to drive us away. He’s trying to do what’s best for the game. That’s his job. I think we all need to give him the benefit of the doubt for these things and see how they play out (while also providing constructive criticism along the way).

Posted by upsetcity on 7/5/2021 1:02:00 PM (view original):
I feel guilty even reviving this thread - because I fear the impending negativity against the admins - but I just figured I’ll post it so nobody not in the discord is out of the loop.

Adam joined in on friendly conversation and was immediately asked about this topic. He mentioned they have been reviewing “threads, emails, and support tickets and are looking at it but worst case scenario what the post said is the intended world of firings come November/December, but the plan is to tweak some based on the feedback” while also noting “Obviously from the thread, folks believed that they were too difficult, so if there were tweaks it would be to make them more liberal”.

Outside of that, it seemed he wasn’t planning on discussing specifics of tweaking because “I think the thing is no matter what we say folks are going to have their opinions and so I would rather tell you that we will listening and looking at feedback” and that the community should “assume that the things we commuted are the requirements right now”.

Only quoting so I didn’t imply anything Adam didn’t intend. If anyone in the discord thinks I still took something out of context, I’ll edit.

As someone who has chatted with Adam in voice chat before, I vouch for him as this is all stuff he mentioned prior to making any notable changes. He understood that this is a large community and any change would have overwhelming feedback from all different directions. At the end of the day, I’m thrilled he’s making changes to a game which I feel really needed them. Adam is someone who DOES care about the community. A lot. He’s not trying to drive us away. He’s trying to do what’s best for the game. That’s his job. I think we all need to give him the benefit of the doubt for these things and see how they play out (while also providing constructive criticism along the way).

Reading this has made me less optimistic about what is being done....but honestly is kind of what I figured. Admin has made up their minds.

I don't believe admin is trying to be malicious, but I don't see this playing out well. It reminds me a lot of the introduction of 3.0....a lot of good what in it, but it went too far and the result was far less coaches in every world.

Too bad.

Posted by joeykw18 on 7/5/2021 1:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by upsetcity on 7/5/2021 1:02:00 PM (view original):
I feel guilty even reviving this thread - because I fear the impending negativity against the admins - but I just figured I’ll post it so nobody not in the discord is out of the loop.

Adam joined in on friendly conversation and was immediately asked about this topic. He mentioned they have been reviewing “threads, emails, and support tickets and are looking at it but worst case scenario what the post said is the intended world of firings come November/December, but the plan is to tweak some based on the feedback” while also noting “Obviously from the thread, folks believed that they were too difficult, so if there were tweaks it would be to make them more liberal”.

Outside of that, it seemed he wasn’t planning on discussing specifics of tweaking because “I think the thing is no matter what we say folks are going to have their opinions and so I would rather tell you that we will listening and looking at feedback” and that the community should “assume that the things we commuted are the requirements right now”.

Only quoting so I didn’t imply anything Adam didn’t intend. If anyone in the discord thinks I still took something out of context, I’ll edit.

As someone who has chatted with Adam in voice chat before, I vouch for him as this is all stuff he mentioned prior to making any notable changes. He understood that this is a large community and any change would have overwhelming feedback from all different directions. At the end of the day, I’m thrilled he’s making changes to a game which I feel really needed them. Adam is someone who DOES care about the community. A lot. He’s not trying to drive us away. He’s trying to do what’s best for the game. That’s his job. I think we all need to give him the benefit of the doubt for these things and see how they play out (while also providing constructive criticism along the way).

Reading this has made me less optimistic about what is being done....but honestly is kind of what I figured. Admin has made up their minds.

I don't believe admin is trying to be malicious, but I don't see this playing out well. It reminds me a lot of the introduction of 3.0....a lot of good what in it, but it went too far and the result was far less coaches in every world.

Too bad.

I disagree. I actually think this corroborates what Topp has been saying.

Worse case scenario, we'll have the requirements previously outlined. That's obvious. But Adam and crew are very aware of our issues, so I think it's much more likely the requirements will be relaxed a bit. What form that takes, I don't know. But I'd be shocked if no tweaks were made.

Posted by joeykw18 on 7/5/2021 1:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by upsetcity on 7/5/2021 1:02:00 PM (view original):
I feel guilty even reviving this thread - because I fear the impending negativity against the admins - but I just figured I’ll post it so nobody not in the discord is out of the loop.

Adam joined in on friendly conversation and was immediately asked about this topic. He mentioned they have been reviewing “threads, emails, and support tickets and are looking at it but worst case scenario what the post said is the intended world of firings come November/December, but the plan is to tweak some based on the feedback” while also noting “Obviously from the thread, folks believed that they were too difficult, so if there were tweaks it would be to make them more liberal”.

Outside of that, it seemed he wasn’t planning on discussing specifics of tweaking because “I think the thing is no matter what we say folks are going to have their opinions and so I would rather tell you that we will listening and looking at feedback” and that the community should “assume that the things we commuted are the requirements right now”.

Only quoting so I didn’t imply anything Adam didn’t intend. If anyone in the discord thinks I still took something out of context, I’ll edit.

As someone who has chatted with Adam in voice chat before, I vouch for him as this is all stuff he mentioned prior to making any notable changes. He understood that this is a large community and any change would have overwhelming feedback from all different directions. At the end of the day, I’m thrilled he’s making changes to a game which I feel really needed them. Adam is someone who DOES care about the community. A lot. He’s not trying to drive us away. He’s trying to do what’s best for the game. That’s his job. I think we all need to give him the benefit of the doubt for these things and see how they play out (while also providing constructive criticism along the way).

Reading this has made me less optimistic about what is being done....but honestly is kind of what I figured. Admin has made up their minds.

I don't believe admin is trying to be malicious, but I don't see this playing out well. It reminds me a lot of the introduction of 3.0....a lot of good what in it, but it went too far and the result was far less coaches in every world.

Too bad.

Yeah I think Adam knows what he’s doing man. He’s seen the feedback, and he’s taking his time working out a jobs proposal through the next few months. I’m guessing he’ll be giving new coaches an extra long grace period as a major change, and maybe making the criteria for A+ baseline coaches a little more lenient.

A new idea for firings:

Everyone keeps their job until someone else wants to challenge them for it. The challenge consists of a fight to the death in the thunder dome (no shirts allowed). Or rock-paper-scissors best of 3. Either one.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

I think they'll have a grace period for new coaches, but doubt they'll adjust anything else until after the fact.

Posted by mlitney on 7/6/2021 12:51:00 PM (view original):
A new idea for firings:

Everyone keeps their job until someone else wants to challenge them for it. The challenge consists of a fight to the death in the thunder dome (no shirts allowed). Or rock-paper-scissors best of 3. Either one.

I'd pay a decent fee to watch topdogg and poopshoe wrestle shirtless in jello for the Duke head coaching gig.

“I think the thing is no matter what we say folks are going to have their opinions and so I would rather tell you that we will listening and looking at feedback” and that the community should “assume that the things we commuted are the requirements right now”.

that does sound rather ominous, but it also sort of implies, counter to most of the posts in the last 5 pages (including mine, excluding whining), that maybe folks shouldn't just assume they will probably adjust and settle down and wait to hear more. i agreed with that approach, but... his comment suggests the opposite, to some degree - no? if we should assume the requirements are as stated, isn't that essentially saying that nick and others are the ones acting rationally here?

anyway, there's always a range of opinions and such but i struggle to see how adam and co could look at the data benis and folks pulled, and agree with the correctness of the data, while disagreeing with the conclusion that its too much firing. if they don't agree with the data, or are looking at different data, i kinda wish they'd follow up on that front, and if they disagree with the conclusion but agree with the data, i feel like they should at least tell us that, too.

there are some folks always who want overly hardcore settings, in all games, but that's pretty clearly not where adam is coming from. so sort of setting those folks aside... with respect to that last comment...

Posted by gillispie on 7/6/2021 1:24:00 PM (view original):
“I think the thing is no matter what we say folks are going to have their opinions and so I would rather tell you that we will listening and looking at feedback” and that the community should “assume that the things we commuted are the requirements right now”.

that does sound rather ominous, but it also sort of implies, counter to most of the posts in the last 5 pages (including mine, excluding whining), that maybe folks shouldn't just assume they will probably adjust and settle down and wait to hear more. i agreed with that approach, but... his comment suggests the opposite, to some degree - no? if we should assume the requirements are as stated, isn't that essentially saying that nick and others are the ones acting rationally here?

anyway, there's always a range of opinions and such but i struggle to see how adam and co could look at the data benis and folks pulled, and agree with the correctness of the data, while disagreeing with the conclusion that its too much firing. if they don't agree with the data, or are looking at different data, i kinda wish they'd follow up on that front, and if they disagree with the conclusion but agree with the data, i feel like they should at least tell us that, too.

there are some folks always who want overly hardcore settings, in all games, but that's pretty clearly not where adam is coming from. so sort of setting those folks aside... with respect to that last comment...

I agree Gil.

I guess the question is, whats the goal here? Does Adam and/or the community want mass firings to happen pretty regularly where every season there are a dozen coaches fired and we have a major coaching carousel in every world all the time? Is that the intention?

Or is the intention to remove the small% of coaches who have been camped at schools for real life years and can't seem to even make the tourney. Remove the dead weight and fill with more quality coaches. Is that intention?

If you want the former then yes, this change accomplishes the objective. If you want the latter then there has been a serious miscalculation on proposed requirements.

Anyone know from Adam what he's going for here?

Every season there are a dozen coaches fired… sounds like a stretch. I know you’ve run data but that statement definitely seems extreme.

Posted by craigaltonw on 7/6/2021 2:19:00 PM (view original):
Every season there are a dozen coaches fired… sounds like a stretch. I know you’ve run data but that statement definitely seems extreme.

I just looked at Allen and using the past 4 seasons. At the end of last season we would have had:

Safe - 38 coaches
Fired - 10 coaches
Not enough seasons or sim controlled - 23

Hard to say what will happen long-term with so many coaches moving around and inexperienced coaches taking over programs without having much of a resume... I dunno. But a dozen doesn't seem too crazy.

Firings by tier
1- 4
2- 3
3- 3

And Phelan results using the previous 4 seasons only.

Safe - 37
Fired - 20
N/A - 14

wowza.

firings by tier

1- 2
2- 8
3- 10