Rebuilding Topic

iain
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45-win team in flight.... Tanker's Delight!
1/19/2010 2:24 PM
eeyore1959
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It takes more like 5-6 seasons to build the pipeline to have prospects knocking on the door as arbitration time arrives. Using the rule 5 draft to build ML and organization depth while you build, find what is undervalued (defense, starting pitching, low contact power, etc) and capitalize on it, have a plan for your priorities, and make sure you don't pick someone in the early rounds of the draft who doesn't pan out. In the playoffs, you need 5 stud pitchers to carry you (your 3 starters and two top relievers), with your starting 8 all above average with a couple of studs. Once in the playoffs, if you have maximized your chances, that is all you can do. Correct me if I am wrong.
1/19/2010 2:31 PM
MikeT23
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Because you don't have to win every game, you don't need three stud SP. In fact, you don't need any stud SP. I'm not sure you need stud anything. It won't hurt but I don't think you have to bemoan your fate if you have no studs.
1/19/2010 2:34 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 1/19/2010
Maybe I'm misreading, and we don't mean the same type of player when we each say "stud" ... but seriously. 15-17????

I would say . . . maybe 5 to 6 "studs" (2 SP's, 1 CL, and 2 or 3 position players). Another 7 or 8 above average players (2 more SP's, 2 RP's, 3 to 4 position players), and the rest being solid regulars or competent/contributing role players.
1/19/2010 2:34 PM
MikeT23
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Happy Jack S13. 2 All-Stars(C/SS), 1 GG(SS). No Cy Young/MVP.
Happy Jack S11. 3 All-Stars(SP/SP/3B). Nothing else.

Not stud-filled teams who won my only WS.
1/19/2010 2:37 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/19/2010Because you don't have to win every game, you don't need three stud SP. In fact, you don't need any stud SP. I'm not sure you need stud anything. It won't hurt but I don't think you have to bemoan your fate if you have no studs
I disagree. I think you need two stud SP's (or one stud and 1 near-stud SP) in your rotation for the postseason.

You can get away with no studs in your rotation to have regular season success and make the playoffs every season, but if you don't have a staff built for the post-season you're not going to go very far.
1/19/2010 2:37 PM
eeyore1959
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Speaking of Rule 5, make sure you don't lose an important prospect coming up by not protecting your best. Watching your divisional opponent win with a player you built up with no return stinks.
1/19/2010 2:38 PM
eeyore1959
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In a game 7, I do believe having an ace is a positive.
1/19/2010 2:39 PM
Braziman
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/19/2010
Why would you do that?

And, no, championship caliber teams do not require 15-17 studs. That's why HBD has so many tankers and why so many owners are in perpetual rebuild.



Yes, but of course we start by looking at who's winning championships, and a lot of the time those are teams stuffed with talent raped from newbies in the early days. I agree, you don't need to shoot for the moon to compete.

Just in terms of competing for the playoffs, it's remarkable how much difference marginal improvements at each position/spot in the lineup can affect things.
1/19/2010 2:40 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 1/19/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/19/2010
Because you don't have to win every game, you don't need three stud SP. In fact, you don't need any stud SP. I'm not sure you need stud anything. It won't hurt but I don't think you have to bemoan your fate if you have no studs.
I disagree. I think you need two stud SP's (or one stud and 1 near-stud SP) in your rotation for the postseason.

You can get away with no studs in your rotation to have regular season success and make the playoffs every season, but if you don't have a staff built for the post-season you're not going to go very far.



Care to pick the stud:
Alberto Alonso32320011800158.216787772750117.269.329.4451.374.37
Sean Cooper30181010600131.01477970184294.280.340.4291.444.81
Daniel Santangelo33330010800173.018385822849153.272.323.4581.344.27
Gary Phelps38210010822155.016189842058123.264.331.4331.414.88
Rickey Young584009289113.111557561657107.258.346.4061.524.45
Allan Lunsford3615007955143.215495932442108.269.325.4341.365.83
Domingo Moraga4025007522156.212955472145106.225.290.3761.112.70
Nick Reed3114006122104.0884336142876.227.284.3791.123.12
Chip Woodson6500068111557.0633630101351.274.313.4651.334.74
Mac Suzuki82000682593.11116560163457.298.357.4611.555.79
Ken Salazar3800043162029.11610102916.165.248.2370.853.07
Keith Watson750003726116.21035949144470.234.306.3651.263.78
Emmett Shouse700000007.2544146.185.290.2961.174.70
Team Totals16216210897350661439.114427646982114751084.259.321.4191.334.36
1/19/2010 2:42 PM
aaronwayne
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Question:

What is the best way to get the most out of your high level kids?
Say I've a got a 19 year old 2B, who's at 59 right now, and projected to be at 82, what is the best routine I can use to see that he gets as close to that 82 as possible? (I know splits and the other categories are important, but I'm just talking in general here)

Thanks!
1/19/2010 2:43 PM
iain
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For me, I grade SPs on a scale:

  • Ace
  • Justifiabe to start a playoff game
  • Legit ML SP
  • Spot SP
You can make it work with any particular combination (although obviously an ace helps), but sometimes your matchup makes a difference, too.
1/19/2010 2:46 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/19/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 1/19/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/19/2010
Because you don't have to win every game, you don't need three stud SP. In fact, you don't need any stud SP. I'm not sure you need stud anything. It won't hurt but I don't think you have to bemoan your fate if you have no studs.
I disagree. I think you need two stud SP's (or one stud and 1 near-stud SP) in your rotation for the postseason.

You can get away with no studs in your rotation to have regular season success and make the playoffs every season, but if you don't have a staff built for the post-season you're not going to go very far.




Care to pick the stud:
Alberto Alonso32320011800158.216787772750117.269.329.4451.374.37
Sean Cooper30181010600131.01477970184294.280.340.4291.444.81
Daniel Santangelo33330010800173.018385822849153.272.323.4581.344.27
Gary Phelps38210010822155.016189842058123.264.331.4331.414.88
Rickey Young584009289113.111557561657107.258.346.4061.524.45
Allan Lunsford3615007955143.215495932442108.269.325.4341.365.83
Domingo Moraga4025007522156.212955472145106.225.290.3761.112.70
Nick Reed3114006122104.0884336142876.227.284.3791.123.12
Chip Woodson6500068111557.0633630101351.274.313.4651.334.74
Mac Suzuki82000682593.11116560163457.298.357.4611.555.79
Ken Salazar3800043162029.11610102916.165.248.2370.853.07
Keith Watson750003726116.21035949144470.234.306.3651.263.78
Emmett Shouse700000007.2544146.185.290.2961.174.70
Team Totals16216210897350661439.114427646982114751084.259.321.4191.334.36
Seems that with an 89 win team, you hit the "hot streak" jackpot in the post-season and pulled a WS winner out of your ***. So I'd say this is the exception and not the rule.
1/19/2010 2:48 PM
MikeT23
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Obviously, everyone would love to have 25 studs. But, if you use you pull settings correctly with pitchers and match-up your hitters in the best way possible, it's fairly obvious to me that you can win with a non-stud line-up.

Seriously, the team that wins 115 and is loaded with All-Stars can be taken down in a 5-7 game series.
1/19/2010 2:49 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By aaronwayne on 1/19/2010Question:

What is the best way to get the most out of your high level kids?
Say I've a got a 19 year old 2B, who's at 59 right now, & projected to be at 82, what is the best routine I can use to see that he gets as close to that 82 as possible? (I know splits and the other categories are important, but I'm just talking in general here)

Thanks!
First, make sure your scouting budget is good enough that you can look at the projections with some certainty. 59 to 82 sounds like a big jump.

One level at a time, getting maximum ABs or IPs at each level, and try to make sure he has good coaching at each level.

Once he's ready to be put on the 40 (start of 4th professional season), you'll likely have a player worth considering for your ML roster.
1/19/2010 2:49 PM
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