Cash in Trades Topic

jimmystick
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I was just offered a trade in Canseco.  Budgets were just set yesterday, so it's before the FA period even starts.  I have $111m player budget, and only $50m committed to the season.  Over $60 million to work with.  The guy was trying to offer me a player who is asking $5.5m in arbitration.  The owner admits he's going to release the guy if he can't trade him.  He just wants ANYTHING for him.  He knows he's going to lose him for nothing, so he just wants a player.  I am interested in the player, but I told the other owner I am not willing to meet his $5.5m asking price because that is too much to pay for a backup LF.  He offered to sign the player in arbitration for $5.5m and said he'd give me $3million in cash plus the LF for  defensive, no-hit SS I have in Triple-A.  

As it turns out, I rejected his offer. 

Had I decided to take it, I don't think there's ANYTHING wrong with it.  Nothing collusive, I don't know the other owner, I'm new to this world, I actually don't even remember the owner's username.  I think everybody has been in the position of trying to get something--anything--for an arb player they don't want.  He was willing to eat $2million to obtain my SS.  If he wants to do that, he should be allowed.
9/15/2010 9:59 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by jimmystick on 9/15/2010 9:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 9/15/2010 9:28:00 AM (view original):
"What's the difference between cash during FA period and cash at the All Star break?"

The difference is that during the FA period, unsigned impact free agents are available.  The extra cash that is being sent to another team may allow them to sign an impact player they may not otherwise have been able to sign.  Which could, in turn, change the balance of power within the world.  I'm not sure why any of the other 30 owners would want to be a party to that. 

If that concept is too hard for you to understand, then maybe you shouldn't be throwing the words "idiot" and "stupid" around so freely.
SO WHAT???

Doing it in the middle of the season may give somebody an "unfair" advantage in signing a key IFA, by freeing up $5m in player which they can transfer over to prospect. 

I think there are those who don't like cash in trades and those who don't mind it.  The timing of the trade (during FA period or at the All Star break) is not the issue.  The issue is, do you accept cash in trades in general.

Again, the difference being that cash before FA can give one team an immediate impact.  Your example with the IFA could possibly have an impact 4 or 5 seasons down the road.

If you have philosophical differences about cash in trades vs. no cash in trades, or at least at certain times during the season, you're entitled to your opinion.  As is everybody else. 

Not sure why it's necessary to call people idiots or stupid if they don't agree with you.  But maybe that's just the way you are.
9/15/2010 10:23 PM
deathinahole
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Posted by bbwinnow on 9/15/2010 7:02:00 PM (view original):
Of course DIAH would get involved... I say throwing in $50k in a player-for-player deal to cover a Rule V pick is OK, trading $5mil for a crappy catcher straight up isn't.
Player 1 - $180.05M cap.
Player 3-32 - $180M cap.

Now that gets a shrug of the shoulders.
9/15/2010 11:10 PM
deathinahole
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Posted by jimmystick on 9/15/2010 9:59:00 PM (view original):
I was just offered a trade in Canseco.  Budgets were just set yesterday, so it's before the FA period even starts.  I have $111m player budget, and only $50m committed to the season.  Over $60 million to work with.  The guy was trying to offer me a player who is asking $5.5m in arbitration.  The owner admits he's going to release the guy if he can't trade him.  He just wants ANYTHING for him.  He knows he's going to lose him for nothing, so he just wants a player.  I am interested in the player, but I told the other owner I am not willing to meet his $5.5m asking price because that is too much to pay for a backup LF.  He offered to sign the player in arbitration for $5.5m and said he'd give me $3million in cash plus the LF for  defensive, no-hit SS I have in Triple-A.  

As it turns out, I rejected his offer. 

Had I decided to take it, I don't think there's ANYTHING wrong with it.  Nothing collusive, I don't know the other owner, I'm new to this world, I actually don't even remember the owner's username.  I think everybody has been in the position of trying to get something--anything--for an arb player they don't want.  He was willing to eat $2million to obtain my SS.  If he wants to do that, he should be allowed.

jimmystick - $183M cap.
The rest of Canseco except the fish offering the deal - $180M cap.

Any world worth it's salt would blow that deal out of the water.

9/15/2010 11:12 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by jimmystick on 9/15/2010 9:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/15/2010 9:45:00 AM (view original):
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't salaries pro-rated?   Wouldn't that be a difference in cash deals?

Anwyay, I'm not sure this guy, 771-849 (0.476), should call anyone an idiot or stupid when it comes to HBD.
Leave it to you to be so myopic.  I hate arguing with you in the forums... I don't know why I ever got started this time.
If you're not very good at a game, it's hard to take your opinion on how the game should be played very seriously.    It would be like me discussing the WNBA.   I can toss out an opinion but, at the end of the day, I don't know very much about it.
9/16/2010 7:02 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by deathinahole on 9/15/2010 11:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bbwinnow on 9/15/2010 7:02:00 PM (view original):
Of course DIAH would get involved... I say throwing in $50k in a player-for-player deal to cover a Rule V pick is OK, trading $5mil for a crappy catcher straight up isn't.
Player 1 - $180.05M cap.
Player 3-32 - $180M cap.

Now that gets a shrug of the shoulders.
50k = just enough cash to sign 6 draft picks.   Not so sure I'd be so flippant about it.
9/16/2010 7:03 AM
jimmystick
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/16/2010 7:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jimmystick on 9/15/2010 9:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/15/2010 9:45:00 AM (view original):
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't salaries pro-rated?   Wouldn't that be a difference in cash deals?

Anwyay, I'm not sure this guy, 771-849 (0.476), should call anyone an idiot or stupid when it comes to HBD.
Leave it to you to be so myopic.  I hate arguing with you in the forums... I don't know why I ever got started this time.
If you're not very good at a game, it's hard to take your opinion on how the game should be played very seriously.    It would be like me discussing the WNBA.   I can toss out an opinion but, at the end of the day, I don't know very much about it.
That's not the point.  You have such a holier than though attitude like anybody with a worse record than you doesn't know what the hell they're talking about..

It's REALLY annoying. 

Besides, you don't know anything about me.  We've never played in a world together.  My first team was a team of aging veterans, and at the end of my first season (74 wins) I lost 3 Type A guys and stupidly traded away my best player and Hall of Fame hitter (though I did recieve the previous season's #1 overall draft pick in return, so it wasn't a total bust).  Then I was bad for 2 or 3 seasons while I was learning how to play.  By the time I was getting ready to take my record over the .500 mark, I took over a team in another world for an abandoned owner.  Their record at the time was 30-94.  I finished 50-112.  

The point is you always use the same old defense mechanism "Oh look at that guy's record, pay no attention to him, he is obviously clueless."  Just because somebody has a sub .500 record doesn't mean their opinion can't be right, and it's really annoying that you always resort to the same rule:  Don't attack the person's argument, attack the person.  REALLY ANNOYING.  You've used that on me at least 2 or 3 times and I've seen you use it on others as well.
9/16/2010 8:42 AM
jimmystick
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Hey tec you are right about one thing though.  I shouldn't have called you stupid.  That's not what I meant really.  You and miket are smart people, but sometimes smart people have dumb ideas.  Is that better? ;)

I just got really fired up about it, that's all.  Sometimes faceless people on the internet push my buttons.
9/16/2010 8:44 AM
MikeT23
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Everyone has had bad team and bad times.    The point is simple:  You have an idea.  Some people disagree with you.   Your rebuttal?   "You're a stupid idiot!"

Now, really, who attacked the person and not the argument?

Anyway, if you hadn't been so jerk-like, I wouldn't have bothered.   Cash in trade really has nothing to do with your record.  Your record is based on not being good at HBD.   Cash in trade is just an opinion.
9/16/2010 8:49 AM
jimmystick
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You also insinuated that I was partaking in collusion if I agreed to that kind of trade.  Tec was forming an argument against cash in trades based on the idea of giving one owner an unfair budget.  Your 2 points were "He's a cheater," and "He sucks at this game, don't listen to him."


9/16/2010 9:01 AM
deathinahole
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/16/2010 7:03:00 AM (view original):
Posted by deathinahole on 9/15/2010 11:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bbwinnow on 9/15/2010 7:02:00 PM (view original):
Of course DIAH would get involved... I say throwing in $50k in a player-for-player deal to cover a Rule V pick is OK, trading $5mil for a crappy catcher straight up isn't.
Player 1 - $180.05M cap.
Player 3-32 - $180M cap.

Now that gets a shrug of the shoulders.
50k = just enough cash to sign 6 draft picks.   Not so sure I'd be so flippant about it.
Valid point. Like the one on top of your head.
9/16/2010 9:04 AM
tecwrg
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Thanks for recognizing that cash in trades gives one owner an unfair budget.
9/16/2010 9:04 AM
jimmystick
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Posted by tecwrg on 9/16/2010 9:04:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for recognizing that cash in trades gives one owner an unfair budget.
I never said that.  I was quoting you.  The whole reason I'm arguing with you is because I don't think there's anything unfair about it.
9/16/2010 9:24 AM
MikeT23
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As I recall it, you said something like "Why would an owner include cash if he didn't think it benefitted him?"    I pointed out that the answer is "collusion".   I didn't say you were a colluder, I simply pointed out that would be a reason.    FWIW, just because a trade benefits both owners doesn't make it a good trade for the world.  I'm 47-61 just before the transaction deadline.   I have 3 studs in the last year of their contracts and none will resign.   I trade all three to a guy fighting for his division and pay their salaries for last season's #2 pick.    Good for me, I'm not getting that value from comp picks.   Good for the other guy because he got three studs for his pennant run.   Bad for the world because I just tipped the balance of power. 

My other point, "He's not good at this game.  Take what he says with a grain of salt" is a legit.
9/16/2010 9:28 AM
tecwrg
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A primary way to succeed in HBD is to do things that directly help your team get better.  A secondary way to succeed to to not help the guys you are competing against get better.  Either by sending them gobs of cash, or condoning/allowing other teams to send them gobs of cash.

The best way to succeed is to do both.
9/16/2010 1:28 PM
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