You want to see how this 1 FA turned this world upside down?  How about $25 mil for this RP.  $25mil!!!!

www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx

$500,000 per inning isn't bad.

Posted by iain on 10/28/2010 3:57:00 PM (view original):
Funny... while there's no doube he's awesome, I'd have thought more IP for a 30/90 DUR/STA guy with that kind of top shelf talent.

EDIT: A decent comparison, Mark Valdes was a solid 255-290 IP for 7 seasons never higher than 26/82 (and was only 82 for 1 season).

6-man?  With HIM?  Wow.  You're gentle.  :)

I ran a (mostly) 4-man with Valdes.

Posted by timeprime71 on 10/28/2010 3:39:00 PM (view original):
So as it turned out you were all wrong.

He signed for the same max contract that I offered him (which we knew).  Also the team that signed him had the 26th worst rated pitching coach in the league.  So the PC theory is out the window.  Also it was a pitchers park but not any more than mine.

So there is no ryhme or reason to it as far as I see.  I had a better PC.  I had an exact same ballpark.  Pretty sure both teams won about 90 games and made the playoffs last season so no difference there.
 
Spent 10 seasons with me.  Won 2 rings.  Made playoffs almost every year .......... should have signed with me.  Screw him.

In all honesty, I don't think you can say that so definitively unless all the teams involved at some point kept the offer on the whole time, which sounds unlikely based on the fact you said other FAs were getting bids.  As coaches are hired, it will obviously only impact the tiebreaker for those still with an active bid that was not withdrawn in order to bid on someone else.  In other words, it's a dynamic situation with a lot of moving parts that you can't just look at the results in the end and know exactly how it happened.

In addition, it's not a "theory" about coaching breaking the tie.  Coaching as the primary tiebreaker is a definitive answer stated by WIS to the question.  It's entirely possible they don't know how their own game works and the answer is wrong, but it's not like people made this up.  It's how they've told us it works in their own posted FAQ section.

If you're really curious, they might tell you how this went down if you ask in a ticket.  They'll be the only ones to know who kept active bids throughout the process which is necessary information that no one else has.  I can almost assure you there is a "rhyme and reason" though.  The game is programmed to break ties somehow.  It's not just random.  In my experience in the worlds I've played in and the information available it seems to work just like they say it does.  But it definitely would not surprise me if there is a glitch somewhere in the code for this either.

Posted by strikeout26 on 10/26/2010 2:23:00 PM (view original):
You crumped the bed.

Awesome!

Im not ignoring anything.  Im just reporting the facts.

Despite what you, WIS or anyone else says he signed with a team with the 27th rated PC in the league.

I don't know were anyone came up with Bullpen coach affetcting the signing of a SP, but lets assume it does.  The team he signed with had a low rated BP coach.

No one can come up with a reason why he choose this team.  Everyone in the league is up in arms and are looking for answers (which Im sure will never come).

I'm pretty sure that someone has posted a ticket answer from SiteStaff here saying that past coaching is the key to the coaching tiebreaker, because the coaches aren't hired at the beginning of the FA period.

As for the guy that didn't sign with you when you offered $18M X 5, was that offer still on the table when he signed?  Maybe the other guy psyched out that you had pulled the offer and reduced his.

Posted by timeprime71 on 10/28/2010 4:24:00 PM (view original):
Im not ignoring anything.  Im just reporting the facts.

Despite what you, WIS or anyone else says he signed with a team with the 27th rated PC in the league.

I don't know were anyone came up with Bullpen coach affetcting the signing of a SP, but lets assume it does.  The team he signed with had a low rated BP coach.

No one can come up with a reason why he choose this team.  Everyone in the league is up in arms and are looking for answers (which Im sure will never come).

Instead of being up in arms, someone in the world upset about it should just send a ticket.  It's 100% clear what the tie-breakers are intended to be.  WIS states it plain as day in the Help section.  If something happened that seems to go against this, a ticket should be sent.  If there is a glitch in the program, perhaps an example like this might help them fix it.  But debating in the forums about what the tiebreakers are is pointless.  It's 100% clear what they are, assuming the program is working as WIS expects.

It just seems like this topic about tie-breakers on a max bid is on the forums a lot wondering what they are and the answer is already clearly given.  If the answer doesn't seem correct based on what is happening, then it's important to let WIS know about to either fix the program or fix the answer.

Posted by dedelman on 10/28/2010 5:16:00 PM (view original):
I'm pretty sure that someone has posted a ticket answer from SiteStaff here saying that past coaching is the key to the coaching tiebreaker, because the coaches aren't hired at the beginning of the FA period.

As for the guy that didn't sign with you when you offered $18M X 5, was that offer still on the table when he signed?  Maybe the other guy psyched out that you had pulled the offer and reduced his.

They told me in the past in ticket exchanges that the last season's coach is used until you hire a new one, at which point the tie-breakers are recalculated using the new coach.  It's why the leader in the bidding can change as coaches are hired.

I'm not up in arms at all. I'm over it. Im just saying the PC wasn't the tiebreaker. Just a fact.

Just for the benefit of anyone that might read this thread later on with the same question, here is a breakdown of the stated tiebreaker and some important things to remember about free agent bidding.

1.  It uses pitching coach AND bullpen coach as a tiebreaker for all pitchers.
2.  If teams have not yet hired a coach (which is likely unless you rehire because coach hiring and FA run in parallel), it uses last season's coach until you hire one.  Once you hire the current season coach (which will typically happen during bidding as guys receiving multiple max offers usually sign on the last day), it is supposed to recalculate your position in the tiebreaker.
3.  Ballpark is a factor if coaches don't break the tie.
4.  FA bidding is a dynamic process.  Teams make and withdraw offers.  FA tiebreaker calculations change as teams hire coaches (so the previous season coach rating is replaced by the current season).

I have no idea what happened in this case, but to know if there was a glitch in the process would require you to know:

A.  Every team that made an offer
B.  When each team made the offer
C.  When each team withdrew their offer to bid on someone else
D. When each team hired their pitching and bullpen coaches
E.  The ratings of each team's prior season and current season pitching and bullpen coaches

There is no "fact" here that PC wasn't the tiebreaker (well, that may be a fact since PC alone is not intended to be the tiebreaker) just because the team that ended up with him hired the "27th rated PC".  You need to account for everything listed above.   Maybe there is a glitch in how this played out vs. how they state the tiebreakers work.  It's possible.  But without knowing all of this information, you can't come to any conclusions.  Hopefully if there was a glitch someone will let WIS know about this so they can fix the program for the future.

With all due respect you really don't know what you are talking about.  You are assuming the sim works correctly and according to what they want it to do.  Since when does that happen?

We in this world have put some facts together.  At some point the team that got this guy pushed out a team with the same offer and a worse PC.  You can keep saying the same thing over and over that that didn't happen, but it did. Appreciate your help, know you mean well.  We accounted for everything.  Thats it. The system is flawed.  End of story.

And as far as working it out with WIS adm., thats a joke.  They will do exactly what you did except the scenirios wont end with A-E, like yours.  It will be A-Z.  They will make every excuse possible, we all know it.  Its just not worth the trouble or aggrevation.  

Can we put it to rest now?

I never said there wasn't a flaw (in fact I think I alluded to a possible flaw and suggested it be reported multiple times) and I know nothing nor do I care about your world since I'm not in it.  I've only stated A. how they have said it worked, and B. that the info you presented here proved nothing because you didn't present all the necessary information.  If you have more evidence in your world, great.  Send it in.  I thought you were trying to understand the game better by posting here in the forum, but now I understand you really just wanted to complain about WIS and/or HBD.  Fair enough. 

I've often found WIS support to be helpful when it comes to HBD, at least once you get to the right level of support personnel.  I'm sorry you seem to have a different experience.

Seems like a trend here being once again you have no idea what you are talking about.

I never came on here to complain.  This wasn't about why I didn't get him and why he signed with another team.  Try reading it again.  I started this days before he signed. This was about "What could I have done different? "

The main answer I got was Pitching coach.  Im saying thats wrong.  Im not only saying thats wrong, it clearly IS wrong.  

I didn't come on here to complain about HBD or WIS.  Im just saying, as a matter fact, what they will do.  They will give you 1,000 reasons why he signed with that team and frankly I don't want to hear it because its bulls**t.

What World is this in?