Bug on trades? Topic

MikeT23
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Not saying 4 hours is a long time.  But, if you're completing a trade and know the WS could end on the next cycle, you need to make it a point to get in during those 4 hours.   You can't have unassigned players when the world rolls.   Period.

But, as I suggested, no trading once the WS starts solves the problem.

5/18/2012 9:47 AM
kschoenberg
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There's also a lag that can be well over an hour on when trades are actually completed. More Cowbell is a pretty old league, but even their games don't get processed until about 20 - 30 minutes after a cycle ends (Moneyball which is newer can be about an hour). Trades are even worse.
This is simple, WIS had a rule on how long you can let a player sit unassigned. If they can't grant that entire period because they want to end a season or whatever...they shouldn't allow a situation where it can occur. 
5/18/2012 12:17 PM
MikeT23
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The player in question:   Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Neftali Osuna
If you check the transactions, the "lag" was 4 minutes.   

The rule is 30 HBD days.   Essentially, you're asking that trades stop processing around game 145 or so.    Does that seem a bit silly to you?
5/18/2012 12:50 PM
tecwrg
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Minor leaguers run the risk of retirement if they are not assigned to an appropriate level based on their age and/or years of experience.  Both players in question in this trade were unassigned at rollover.  Your guy retired, the other one didn't.  It's not an "always will" or "always won't" deal.  But having them unassigned, or assigned to an inappropriate level, certainly increases the risk of retirement.

In this case, you traded during the World Series.  The trade WAS completed before the WS completed by a half-cycle, so there was time for assign the players in question.  Unfortunately, you unknowingly played with fire and got burned.

With that in mind, I'm backing off my original comment on page one and have to take WIS's side on this.  There's nothing they should do about this.
5/18/2012 2:55 PM
themudhen
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tecwrg, they're claiming the player being unassigned has nothing to do with it.  He would've retired anyway.  But from a "game" stand point, I had no intentions of playing with fire, a guy showed interest in a player of mine, I made an offer and it was accepted, had no intentions of doing anything under the radar, gained nothing from doing it at the end of the season other than not wanting to wait until all the season rollovers and trade start ups were completed.  Still seems kind of severe to me.
5/18/2012 3:00 PM
MikeT23
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Low level support is often less than helpful.  I somehow doubt, if the player was assigned, that he'd have retired.   So I don't really believe being unassigned didn't factor into his decision.    However, I'm surprised that the other player wasn't, at the very least, released.    You have 30 HBD days to assign a player.   The off-season is 110 or so HBD days. 

At the end of the day, I don't think WifS should do anything in this specific case, you are to blame for the mess, but they should change the policy of allowing trades that late in a season. 
5/18/2012 3:06 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by themudhen on 5/18/2012 3:00:00 PM (view original):
tecwrg, they're claiming the player being unassigned has nothing to do with it.  He would've retired anyway.  But from a "game" stand point, I had no intentions of playing with fire, a guy showed interest in a player of mine, I made an offer and it was accepted, had no intentions of doing anything under the radar, gained nothing from doing it at the end of the season other than not wanting to wait until all the season rollovers and trade start ups were completed.  Still seems kind of severe to me.
I think you are misreading WIS's response.  They are not saying he would retire regardless of anything else.  Seeing that he was 20 years old with 2 years experience, if he was assigned to AA or higher, he would absolutely not have retired.  Very slight chance that he could have retired if he was assigned to High A.  Greater chance if he was assigned to Low A or Rookie.  Greatest chance if unassigned.

And my "playing with fire" comment was not a slight at you or any kind of insinuation that you were trying to do anything sneaky.  It was just a statement of fact.  You made a high-risk trade with respect to possibly having a very limited amount of time to react to it's completion.  Nothing "severe" about it, it's just the way the game works.  Unfortunately, you learned this the hard way.
5/18/2012 3:15 PM
joshkvt
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Posted by themudhen on 5/18/2012 2:47:00 PM (view original):
The other owner also didnt have the chance to assign his player but he didnt lose him to retirement in the off season.
So it comes down to: The guy I got retired, the guy I gave up didn't. And WIS should fix that why? If the guy I give up gains 8 points and the guy I get back loses 2, should they fix that also? Trades always carry some risk. Not counting 

As is often the case with thee threads
- You posted asking for others to agree with you that you were hosed
- Most others don't agree with you
- You post again asking owners to contact support and demand that your supposed hosing be fixed

I'm guessing suport will be able to deal with the flood of tickets demanding that the player be unretired.
5/18/2012 3:16 PM
jsturgis5866
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Mike's being nice... yes, I said it. CS often *lies* -- tells flat-out untruths, which if they don't know to be false at that moment they could discover inside of 60 seconds. Of course, the player would not have retired, but that is still, still, still, still, still beside the point. The program is flawed, but big deal .. it has many flaws. Let's take some responsibility on our shoulders. "... no idea of a four-game sweep"? That's got to be the dumbest thing I've read in this thread
5/18/2012 3:20 PM
joshkvt
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Posted by themudhen on 5/18/2012 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Guys, 1st when I made the trade I had no idea of a 4 game sweep (nor did it really cross my mind).  2nd, WIS is claiming the player being unassigned as nothing to do with it.  He just decided to retire.  I would've been fine if the trade was nullified but now I lost my old player and my new one.  Thanks for all of your help on this.  If anyone could persuade WIS customer service that would be much appreciated. 

Bart
If the possibility of a sweep never crossed your mind, why is that anyone else's fault? Trades always carry some risk; trades made/accepted at certain times (Rule 5 freeze, end of season) require extra diligence on the owners' part, not on support's.

In a good world with good owners, the person you traded with would probably be willing to make a somewhat one-sided deal to even rings out. But it's simply wrong to say this is a bug; the simulation worked as intended, with (apparently) an increased chance for retirement of played who are unassigned, which is logical. Did you have very little time to assign the player? Absolutely. Did the other owner come out ahead? Certainly. That doesn't mean it's a bug, bad design or anyone else's fault or responsibility.
5/18/2012 3:21 PM
MikeT23
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I don't consider not knowing and having no desire to find out to be a "lie".    As I said before, first level support has a stock answer of "There's nothing we can do".   Until that's disputed with a legit argument, which isn't happening in this case, it's not getting bumped up the ladder. 
5/18/2012 3:28 PM
MikeT23
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FWIW, I think most of us thinks it sucks for you.   But we also think it's of your own making.  

5/18/2012 4:12 PM
bigal888
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Also, what I read from CS response is that the player that retired wasn't as good as you thought he was.  He was going to end up being a career minor leaguer and you didn't lose anything of value.  Yes, the situation sucked, but you made a bad trade and they're trying to tell you that you are fighting to "un-retire" a player that is worthless.
5/18/2012 6:02 PM
Crump123
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/18/2012 3:28:00 PM (view original):
I don't consider not knowing and having no desire to find out to be a "lie".    As I said before, first level support has a stock answer of "There's nothing we can do".   Until that's disputed with a legit argument, which isn't happening in this case, it's not getting bumped up the ladder. 
Last time I spoke to CS, I had a legit complaint. I researched why i thought it was wrong. I pointed out to CS what did happen, what should happen according to their "Help" documentation and what did actually happen. I proved what should happen, didn't happen. They fixed my issue in one ticket response. If you give them good information, they're fine, provided they understand the issue.
5/19/2012 5:10 AM (edited)
MikeT23
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That's sort of my point.   If they don't understand the issue, they aren't doing much digging in order ot educate themselves.

I've defended CS, ad nauseum, in these forums.   Just judging from the posts, I'd estimate that 75% of the membership struggles to form a complete thought.   Answering a ticket that looks like this "my taem loss when pitcher b comed in but i think a wood play why" is pretty impossible.   But, when the ticket is crystal clear with player/world links and the canned response comes straight from some handbook, it's quite annoying.
5/19/2012 9:25 AM
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