Posted by gillispie1 on 2/25/2020 6:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 2/25/2020 5:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Stormfury on 2/25/2020 4:51:00 PM (view original):
Seeing as you replied to my post, while I appreciate the "don't quit, play D2" advice, it's not what I signed up to play and not what I want to play. I'll stick it out a bit longer as i bought a 10 season pass. The point isn't change it or I quit, but rather the system is hella borked and explains why the leagues are so empty. Seems like that should be a priority for Whatif but obviously this game's not their big $ ticket item.

Ahhhhh well then unfortunately benis is correct! I hate losing to that guy! Haha

I honestly got that impression from your post. I thought you were growing tired of it, and were going to quit. So if that's not the case, keep on making the trudge! But if that quitting point ever comes BECAUSE OF THESE ISSUES, give the lower levels a try first if you love the game.

Good luck with your mission!

can i just ask for a moment... what you think he's been doing this whole time, if not giving the lower levels a try?

i am one who had and has no personal issue with the play-d3-first thing. however, i totally get where other people are coming from, and their frustration about the long slog to d1. its obvious. if you are reducing it to simply a name-of-school issue with a just-play-d2 solution, you need to seriously work on your empathy and/or open-mindedness (reducing the amount you let your personal bias blind you). (other folks reaching that conclusion may be screwed, because one can also reach that conclusion by being an idiot, and i'm not sure there is much they can work on in that case - but in your case that clearly isn't the problem!)

What has he been doing this whole time? Sprinting to D1. He has 8 total seasons. 1 D3, 4 D2, and 3 D1. That's not giving lower levels a try. You don't even have an entire roster of your own players in 4 seasons. Or building up the ability to play and compete and win and lose. Battle adversity. I'd argue that even if he spent all 8 of his seasons at D3 he's still not experienced enough to "grasp HD". I didn't learn HD in 8 seasons. I didn't make a S16 in my first 58 seasons. Literally. I also didn't care back then, or reach out for help. It can take a lot of time to grasp what's going on

I have no personal bias. I don't care what this coach does personally. As my above post states, I thought he was implying that he wasn't going to be around much longer due to frustration. THAT is the key to everything I've said. And all I was offering was an alternative to not quitting. I was wrong about that, and I addressed that above.

Read the rest of what i said and stop trying to take one sentence and act like I'm being closed minded about it. I said I viewed all 3 levels as different games. I understand the frustration that the journey to D1 can cause. When people rush to D1, they don't even know why they're rushing to D1. They just want a cool school at that point. (That's why the "name on the letterhead" comment came about).

If I'm reading a post, that I believe a coach is saying he's going to quit, what else should I have said?!..... "eh you're right. It sucks. Thanks for stopping in, go ahead and quit."

?The guy never got past the 2nd round of the NT. He had at least one high quality coach that i know of, assisting him in learning HD. So stormy has potential. He will be a solid coach. So I'd like to see him stick around. As much as everyone complains about the slow journey to D1 (which is a very valid issue to complain about), they aren't learning much about the game by just rushing to get to D1 either. So as benis stated earlier, there's nothing wrong with gaining game experience at the lower levels before rushing to D1. When benis says it, it's ok. When I say it, it's personal bias.

When Benis says it, its GOSPEL.

Fixed it for ya.

Posted by topdogggbm on 2/25/2020 7:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/25/2020 6:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 2/25/2020 5:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Stormfury on 2/25/2020 4:51:00 PM (view original):
Seeing as you replied to my post, while I appreciate the "don't quit, play D2" advice, it's not what I signed up to play and not what I want to play. I'll stick it out a bit longer as i bought a 10 season pass. The point isn't change it or I quit, but rather the system is hella borked and explains why the leagues are so empty. Seems like that should be a priority for Whatif but obviously this game's not their big $ ticket item.

Ahhhhh well then unfortunately benis is correct! I hate losing to that guy! Haha

I honestly got that impression from your post. I thought you were growing tired of it, and were going to quit. So if that's not the case, keep on making the trudge! But if that quitting point ever comes BECAUSE OF THESE ISSUES, give the lower levels a try first if you love the game.

Good luck with your mission!

can i just ask for a moment... what you think he's been doing this whole time, if not giving the lower levels a try?

i am one who had and has no personal issue with the play-d3-first thing. however, i totally get where other people are coming from, and their frustration about the long slog to d1. its obvious. if you are reducing it to simply a name-of-school issue with a just-play-d2 solution, you need to seriously work on your empathy and/or open-mindedness (reducing the amount you let your personal bias blind you). (other folks reaching that conclusion may be screwed, because one can also reach that conclusion by being an idiot, and i'm not sure there is much they can work on in that case - but in your case that clearly isn't the problem!)

What has he been doing this whole time? Sprinting to D1. He has 8 total seasons. 1 D3, 4 D2, and 3 D1. That's not giving lower levels a try. You don't even have an entire roster of your own players in 4 seasons. Or building up the ability to play and compete and win and lose. Battle adversity. I'd argue that even if he spent all 8 of his seasons at D3 he's still not experienced enough to "grasp HD". I didn't learn HD in 8 seasons. I didn't make a S16 in my first 58 seasons. Literally. I also didn't care back then, or reach out for help. It can take a lot of time to grasp what's going on

I have no personal bias. I don't care what this coach does personally. As my above post states, I thought he was implying that he wasn't going to be around much longer due to frustration. THAT is the key to everything I've said. And all I was offering was an alternative to not quitting. I was wrong about that, and I addressed that above.

Read the rest of what i said and stop trying to take one sentence and act like I'm being closed minded about it. I said I viewed all 3 levels as different games. I understand the frustration that the journey to D1 can cause. When people rush to D1, they don't even know why they're rushing to D1. They just want a cool school at that point. (That's why the "name on the letterhead" comment came about).

If I'm reading a post, that I believe a coach is saying he's going to quit, what else should I have said?!..... "eh you're right. It sucks. Thanks for stopping in, go ahead and quit."

?The guy never got past the 2nd round of the NT. He had at least one high quality coach that i know of, assisting him in learning HD. So stormy has potential. He will be a solid coach. So I'd like to see him stick around. As much as everyone complains about the slow journey to D1 (which is a very valid issue to complain about), they aren't learning much about the game by just rushing to get to D1 either. So as benis stated earlier, there's nothing wrong with gaining game experience at the lower levels before rushing to D1. When benis says it, it's ok. When I say it, it's personal bias.

its not one sentence - its more or less everything you've said in this thread. except for the bare notion that d2/d3 can be enjoyable (duh), the rest of it is nonsense on the level of what i expect from someone who is really, really high (not that there is anything wrong with that!)

context matters. this is a thread about the broken jobs system, particularly with respect to d1, and your response was to a post about the broken progression system, particularly with respect to what it takes to get a mid level d1 team. its not like you posted a 1-liner somewhere 'hey guys, d2/d3 can be fun - and btw, please don't quit'! no - rather, you posted a multi-paragraph response arguing that the solution to this problem is simply to play d2/d3 (possibly with a post-it on your screen).

so now you want to hide behind 'come on, is me saying d2/d3 is fun too SO ridiculous?!?!' of course not, but that simply isn't a reasonable distillation of what happened here. if that was all you said, you don't get a response from me. a half dozen paragraphs about how the solution to the d1 slog is to just not play d1, then you get a response. a lot of coaches come here with the idea of coaching <insert d1 school>, and regardless, very few have the patience to wait years to get to a point where they are playing the game they came to play (8 seasons is well over a year in 1/day, and folks had damn well be able to grasp a game in a year, to meaningfully evaluate if its a game they want to play - at least if you want a decent number of them to stick around). the amount of time and effort it takes new coaches to get on board is the #1 reason this game struggles to find customers - the system is obviously broken for the vast majority of people out there. either argue 1) that is precisely what makes this game great, or 2) talk about how to fix it... but don't pretend the solution is just to ignore d1. that is just ridiculous.

and to be fair - its not just me who took you that way. the guy you are trying to advise literally responded with this: 'Seeing as you replied to my post, while I appreciate the "don't quit, play D2" advice, it's not what I signed up to play and not what I want to play.'

exactly.

Posted by Benis on 2/25/2020 5:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 2/25/2020 5:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Stormfury on 2/25/2020 4:51:00 PM (view original):
Seeing as you replied to my post, while I appreciate the "don't quit, play D2" advice, it's not what I signed up to play and not what I want to play. I'll stick it out a bit longer as i bought a 10 season pass. The point isn't change it or I quit, but rather the system is hella borked and explains why the leagues are so empty. Seems like that should be a priority for Whatif but obviously this game's not their big $ ticket item.

Ahhhhh well then unfortunately benis is correct! I hate losing to that guy! Haha

I honestly got that impression from your post. I thought you were growing tired of it, and were going to quit. So if that's not the case, keep on making the trudge! But if that quitting point ever comes BECAUSE OF THESE ISSUES, give the lower levels a try first if you love the game.

Good luck with your mission!

Ding ding ding!

Storm, one thing that sucks is that you would have been better off staying at d2 for a couple more seasons before jumping to d1. Taking a ****** d1 job actually sets you back unfortunately.

My advice would be to try to learn D1 recruiting "risk free" with this scrub team so you are ready for when you get your real job you are ready. Feel free to sitemail if you need any d1 tips.

Yes, I wish I had known this before. Unfortunately live and learn. I've had two straight 50+ ranked recruiting classes so things should get better. Just doesn't make the frustrations go away.

considering you already conceded benis was right - i'm probably giving you too much of a hard time - but i couldn't exactly help myself, either. if we are all gonna die anyway, well, i guess if 1% of us are gonna die anyway (assuming the entire world gets infected), because of stupid coronavirus - i definitely have to get some **** talking in now!

The one thing I find funny is that it feels like you guys are assuming I want a cush job in D1. I'm just trying to get into the Horizon league which is full of D+ teams to play with my buddy. We're both fine with struggling at our long term schools. It's not at all about "I should be good" or "Recruiting is hard". We've both done pretty well with both aspects of the game. Our frustration is how ridiculously hard it is to get to a lower tier conference in D1.

Any rate, we've beaten this horse enough. It's not going to change as the admins have pretty much stated to me "working as designed".

Posted by Stormfury on 2/25/2020 11:20:00 PM (view original):
The one thing I find funny is that it feels like you guys are assuming I want a cush job in D1. I'm just trying to get into the Horizon league which is full of D+ teams to play with my buddy. We're both fine with struggling at our long term schools. It's not at all about "I should be good" or "Recruiting is hard". We've both done pretty well with both aspects of the game. Our frustration is how ridiculously hard it is to get to a lower tier conference in D1.

Any rate, we've beaten this horse enough. It's not going to change as the admins have pretty much stated to me "working as designed".

just to kinda move on past that rambling with topdogg, i do want to say - i definitely didn't assume that (i think my characterization was that you were complaining about the progression system to get a middling d1 school). also, i think its really just dogg who assumed that. the rest of us are more or less mocking him for that assumption, for boiling the problem (and solution) down to something so trivial. im WAY less trying to have a real argument than i am trying to give him a hard time for how silly his first post or two were.

the primary problem here is that folks come in, spend 20-30 bucks and a few months - have no freaking clue what is going on, and/or see no path to get where they want to go - and leave. the big name school is part of it - a bigger part is that d1 is the pinnacle because we all define it as such, and so folks want to get a decent job there, which takes literally years in some cases - and an even bigger part is how unassailable this game seems in totality to so many newer coaches.

i think we all agree with you that there is very, very little chance of meaningful reform! but, we still do like to argue about totally pointless stuff from time to time...

in an attempt to be ever-so-slightly constructive - benis is right, unfortunately - if your goal was horizon league, d2 is the faster path. second, i think you can still get there just by making the PIT a couple times with a couple other winning records, which isn't that hard, there are barely enough humans to fill the post season (if there are even that many). so don't give up hope yet! just schedule the better sims from empty conference in your non-conf, and when you are good enough to beat sims reliably, you'll be all set (which isn't all that hard).

you have a couple solid conf mates so it might be a bit tough to get to the NT, but its doable - that would probably get you there quickly. normally, thats a bonus of being in those **** nearly empty d1 confs. you still have a shot though - that would get you there in short order, but the beating up on the better sims from empty confs (who will have solid records) is your guaranteed path forward.

also, the top 50 recruiting class thing, i would... not read into that. that measure is so useless its hard to qualify how useless it is. i suppose i would say its about as useless as telling you to just play d2 :)

You have no teams. Why are you even here?

If you read all my posts instead of one line, as you say, you'll see that well past the comments. And now only arguing with you. I don't know what else you want me to say to make you happy, other than what I've already said. I took his comments out of context. Yes he did respond, but he didn't have a problem with it. He clarified. And I said, ok my mistake, enjoy your mission. What the hell is wrong with that?

Posted by topdogggbm on 2/26/2020 5:01:00 AM (view original):
You have no teams. Why are you even here?

If you read all my posts instead of one line, as you say, you'll see that well past the comments. And now only arguing with you. I don't know what else you want me to say to make you happy, other than what I've already said. I took his comments out of context. Yes he did respond, but he didn't have a problem with it. He clarified. And I said, ok my mistake, enjoy your mission. What the hell is wrong with that?

Aside from the "you have no teams" thing being a dumb reason to tell people not to use the forum, gil co-coaches Delaware State in Tark. They just won a natty.

Pretty sure Gil co-coaches North Carolina in Smith, too. Having said that, you all jumping on topdogg for derailing this thread is funny considering you achieve the same thing by getting into petty arguments. Top's advice might not have been targeted toward fixing the core issues of D1 promotion, but it was a good-natured attempt to keep players playing this game, which we all benefit from. He also backed off his advice right after Storm made it clear he wasn't interested in building a dynasty at D2. It could have just ended there but, you know, internet fighting makes people feel tough.

Posted by Basketts on 2/26/2020 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Pretty sure Gil co-coaches North Carolina in Smith, too. Having said that, you all jumping on topdogg for derailing this thread is funny considering you achieve the same thing by getting into petty arguments. Top's advice might not have been targeted toward fixing the core issues of D1 promotion, but it was a good-natured attempt to keep players playing this game, which we all benefit from. He also backed off his advice right after Storm made it clear he wasn't interested in building a dynasty at D2. It could have just ended there but, you know, internet fighting makes people feel tough.

I agree, I think Gil got too carried away with this one. Top had the best intentions in mind with his advice and really that's the important thing I think.

Posted by Benis on 2/26/2020 11:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Basketts on 2/26/2020 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Pretty sure Gil co-coaches North Carolina in Smith, too. Having said that, you all jumping on topdogg for derailing this thread is funny considering you achieve the same thing by getting into petty arguments. Top's advice might not have been targeted toward fixing the core issues of D1 promotion, but it was a good-natured attempt to keep players playing this game, which we all benefit from. He also backed off his advice right after Storm made it clear he wasn't interested in building a dynasty at D2. It could have just ended there but, you know, internet fighting makes people feel tough.

I agree, I think Gil got too carried away with this one. Top had the best intentions in mind with his advice and really that's the important thing I think.

I agree with this as well. And a couple things to note.... didn't they say co-coaching can't be done any longer? And even if you can, what's the point? Just to show up and see what everybody else is doing?

And the most important point, and I HOPE gil would agree..... none of this is anger! I'm laughing while writing it all. I'd give gil a big ol HD Hug if he was standing with me! I have no problems with gil or anybody else here! I can't think of one individual here that I don't "like". It's all just table talk, and slingin' poo around. Nothing more.

I mean just the day before, gil congratulated me on getting from title 5 to title 10 very quickly. And I thanked him and appreciated it. So I'm sure he's in it for the sport of arguing too.

But I do find it funny that when spud posts that people say "you have no teams" and it's fine. But for gil everyone ran to his rescue hahaha.

Edit.... maybe I didn't like MikeT much. So there's one.

yeah i wasn't being very serious at all, either. i *tried* to make that clear in my first post - which i thought was fairly whimsical - but i clearly failed! that's on me. but i sort of recognized it after a couple posts and hence my comment about probably taking it too far. it really was about giving dogg **** from the beginning. and not really to be tough, just screwing around. sorry for coming off the wrong way!!

Awww group hug y'all