It’s also why I posted the division rankings as an independent list. They aren’t the same thing.

I got the impression you were posting the 2nd list as a correction to the first list.... both intended to convey the same thing. (which they don't)

clearly owners can't play themselves. that's doesn't detract from the fact that the first list answers the question "how difficult are my divisions compared to other owners divisions" since the wins for every owner in a division make up that divisions degree of difficulty. The differences in point totals between divisions only exist because they play opponents outside of their division. If teams just played within their divisions, then all divisional point totals would be equal cause there's 3 wins and 3 losses every time you play in your division. Consider the first 10 games of a season, all games played within your division. If you added up all wins in each division through the first 10 games... all divisions would be tied with an equal number of wins. What's the conclusion, they're all equally difficult? Nonsense. It's only the wins against other divisions that need to be compared... that's where you get your differences in point totals. and all owners wins in that division need to be counted toward degree of difficulty.

The second list answers "how difficult are the opponents I play against" It's because bad teams inflate the wins of those in their divisions, and good teams deflate the wins, that the 2nd list gives a misleading result for degree of difficulty. By that logic albi and ash are at the top of the list because they have bad teams... not because they're in hard divisions. Ash, in fact, is in the hardest (on average) divisions, but albi is not. Look at his divisions, there's no argument for why he'd be at the top of a list that's intended to convey degree of difficulty of divisional assignments. wasn't that the goal of the exercise, to see who's in the hardest divisions? mission accomplished with the first list.

" The differences in point totals between divisions only exist because they play opponents outside of their division. If teams just played within their divisions, then all divisional point totals would be equal cause there's 3 wins and 3 losses every time you play in your division. Consider the first 10 games of a season, all games played within your division. If you added up all wins in each division through the first 10 games... all divisions would be tied with an equal number of wins. What's the conclusion, they're all equally difficult? Nonsense."

Um, yeah, no sh**.

I am not sure I really understand the other point you are making but feel free to post some new stuff. I am posting stuff that I find interesting and I think other people might find useful. I am not really interested in arguing about what I should or should not post at this point. People can feel free to post other aggregated numbers that they find useful and would like to share.

At this point me and sometimes 20ks are the only people aggregating anything on this league and sharing it. People ******** about it not being what they want to see while also not contributing anything of their own is honestly kind of ****** imo.

I'd rather just not put in the effort of helping out and doing it then listen to people complain about it.

"Owners don’t get to play themselves."

Um, yeah, no sh**. Back at you. I'm going to assume you weren't trying to insult my intelligence by stating the obvious, and I wasn't trying to insult yours either. Just making a point with simple logic so any reader could follow. There's no new stuff that needs to be posted, the first list you posted with ash at the top is the correct list when looking at degree of difficultly to divisional assignments. I only said something cause some other owners may look at the adjusted list and think that they're in easy divisions, or that albi is in the hardest divisions. go by the first list that robusk posted people if you want to gauge how hard your divisional assignments are.

I'd point out the flaws in your logic but I am exhausted arguing with people on this stupid site. That list is also not meant to be "who is in the toughest division" as I provided which divisions were the toughest in a separate list. It is a sum of the wins of each owners competitors in their divisions. You are arguing against a point I am not really trying to make. I've been trying to keep it pleasant for a couple weeks now. Do whatever you want man. I am going to go about my day.

Both things posted were useful and told very interesting things.

I don't think pex is trying to be critical or debate your work, but I could be wrong.

Posted by ashamael on 10/1/2020 5:23:00 PM (view original):
Both things posted were useful and told very interesting things.

I don't think pex is trying to be critical or debate your work, but I could be wrong.

I also thought all three division related posts were interesting ways of looking at the divisions. Pex did not. It is what it is. I don't think there is a singular "right" way of displaying the information. It is a matter of what question you want to answer.

It just kind of made me want to lay off the sharing because everything turns into an argument here. It's like why bother trying to have fun with this stuff.

I think it is pretty plausible you could tease out actual team SoS if you wanted to manage the queries to 120 teams and assemble the data. That is a project for when my wife and kid are randomly stranded elsewhere for 3 months again.

The bummer with this stuff is that you can only mostly do it against the public pages. The Sportshub login/authentication system has made it almost impossible to script stuff that requires authentication unless you want to go crazy.

I was going to take your data and go a step further in a little bit. I don't know if I'll have the time but if so, I will.

Posted by ashamael on 10/1/2020 7:23:00 PM (view original):
I was going to take your data and go a step further in a little bit. I don't know if I'll have the time but if so, I will.

You’re my guy so if you want something else let me know.

Posted by ashamael on 10/1/2020 5:23:00 PM (view original):
Both things posted were useful and told very interesting things.

I don't think pex is trying to be critical or debate your work, but I could be wrong.

Not at all. I understood that the first list was the owners with the toughest divisions in descending order to the owners with the weakest divisions. I just didn't get from the dialogue on page 2 that the adjusted list was intended to convey something different and thought it best to clarify. dBKC is a good example because he got one of the toughest divisional draws, but if you look at the adjusted list you would think that he didn't. albi is another good example because he got one of the easier divisional draws, but if you look at the adjusted list you would think that he got the hardest. it's all good.

looking at the two lists together is informational though, so thanks for posting.

from the first list I can conclude dBKC got a hard divisional draw, and from the large downward shift in his position on the adjusted list due to subtracting his wins I can conclude that he's kicking arse.
from the first list I can conclude that albi got easy divisional draws, and from the large upward shift in his position to the adjusted list due to subtracting his wins I can conclude that he's getting his arse kicked.
from the first list I can conclude that ash got the hardest divisional draws, and from the very small shift in his position on the adjusted list I can conclude that he's holding his own.
from the first list I can conclude that I got average difficulty divisional draws, and from the large downward shift in that position on the adjusted list I can conclude that I'm kicking your arses.

Owner	Shift in Position
albiband0	19	struggling in easy divisions
jpevans31	17	struggling in easy divisions
ysw128	9	losing ground in average divisions
jhsukow	8	losing ground in average divisions
goetz93	6	losing ground in average divisions
jcred5	5	losing ground in easy divisions
dskantor	3	holding your own in average divisions
20ks	2	holding your own in easier divisions
robusk	1	holding your own in hard divisions
tarheel1991	1	holding your own in easier divisions
benhoidal	0	holding your own in harder divisions
mikee1	0	holding your own in average divisions
cmcafeeky	0	holding your own in easier divisions
pharrop	0	holding your own in the easiest divisions
ashamael	-1	holding your own in the hardest divisions
amerk1180	-1	holding your own in medium/hard divisions
24kpyrite	-5	doing well in harder divisions
bds9992	-7	doing well in hard divisions
longtallbrad	-8	doing well in medium/hard divisions
gerryred	-8	doing well in average divisions
mptrey	-9	doing well in average divisions
dh555	-10	doing well in average divisions
dBKC	-11	doing well in harder divisions
pexetera	-11	doing well in average divisions

Posted by pexetera on 10/2/2020 7:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 10/1/2020 5:23:00 PM (view original):
Both things posted were useful and told very interesting things.

I don't think pex is trying to be critical or debate your work, but I could be wrong.

Not at all. I understood that the first list was the owners with the toughest divisions in descending order to the owners with the weakest divisions. I just didn't get from the dialogue on page 2 that the adjusted list was intended to convey something different and thought it best to clarify. dBKC is a good example because he got one of the toughest divisional draws, but if you look at the adjusted list you would think that he didn't. albi is another good example because he got one of the easier divisional draws, but if you look at the adjusted list you would think that he got the hardest. it's all good.

I literally said in a direct replay to you the lists were conveying different things and were flawed if reviewed in a vacuum.

Maybe next time ask questions instead of flying off at the mouth. There is a world where these threads can be a fun place to share information and analysis. Not a place where we all throw rocks at each other.