Another embryonic thought (numbers subject to change/input):

24 team league; every owner starts with 200 points.

6 pseudorandom years from random.org are selected from the pool 1885-2016 - one for each division. (Pseudorandom in that I'll keep a minimum of 15 years between each division for the first year). As new seasons are added, the pool will expand to incorporate them - every year in the pool must have the ability for 5 seasons of keepers. Seasons will be assigned east to west. If the first season in the random season list is even, the oldest team will be put in the NL - if it is odd, the oldest team will go into the AL. (This only matters with AL-only DH.)

Owners bid for draft position in order to determine which division they would like to be placed in - ties broken randomly.

Once that is complete, owners bid for which position in the serpentine draft they would like. Drafts are by division - so 4 teams will be taking players from the year assigned to the division. Ties are broken randomly.

After the draft, owners decide which drafted players they want to sign to multiple-year contracts:
+1 year: 3 points
+2 years: 7 points
+3 years: 15 points
+4 years: 30 points

Once the season starts, contracts cannot change. You can't add years on or subtract years.

Any unspent points carry over. Additionally, each team will be given 50 points when the new season starts.

Key dates:
All-Star break - deadline for division change bids.

20 points: I want those losers - team will go into a specific division.
10 points: Get me outta here - team will be dropped into a different division randomly. (If leagues matter, this level gets you a random division in the same league - 5 points will be league-agnostic.)
5 points: Nah, I'm good - team cannot be moved out of its division.
0 points: Eh, who cares about rivalries? Team is subject to being moved.

Order of operations:
All owners paying to be reassigned are removed from their divisions.
Owners paying 20 are assigned to their requested divisions. If there is not room in that division (2 teams pay 5 to stay there, and 3 owners decide they want to be in that specific division, for example), ties will be broken by order of sitemail receipt. Any owners not getting their requested division will have their fee refunded and the second action in their sitemail taken (if there is no second action, it is assumed that they pay 0).
Teams paying to be reassigned randomly are listed in order of sitemail receipt after the teams that have been moved involuntarily. Openings are added to a random.org list. The first team in the list gets the first opening they qualify for, working down the list. If there are owner(s) who cannot be moved to a different division by this process, teams not moving or paying to freeze will be moved to valid openings based on 1) Being in administration 2) Worst record at ASB 3) Worst Pythagorean % at ASB 4) Most runs allowed at ASB.
Note: Any team moved involuntarily will receive 10 points whether it's by named division or random division assignment.

Game 102 - decide the year of the division.

By default, the division moves forward one year. However, bids from division members can change that.

If the highest bid is 25 or more, the owner chooses the next season specifically from eligible seasons (seasons that will not have a player in the upcoming season).
If the highest bid is 15-24, the owner chooses a span of 10 consecutive eligible years (ineligible seasons removed for the determination of span), Random.org will be utilized to pick which one of those ten seasons is used.
If the highest bid is 10-14, random.org will be used to select the season from eligible seasons.
Owners may also turn in a Freeze Bid. Freeze Bids win all tiebreakers. If the Freeze Bid exceeds the highest other bid, that owner will only be charged the amount of the highest Change Bid (minimum 10 - if you submit a Freeze Bid and no one wants a change, you're paying 10). If multiple players submit Freeze Bids, the last one submitted that covers the requested Change Bid will be the only one charged.

Note: Freeze Bids cannot be submitted for the year at the end of the pool. If no bids are submitted, it will be treated as a random change.

This doesn't work, of course. There's zero incentive to stay in the same year - any teams that move will have the advantage of a whole different player pool, so either all divisions need to change or none do. There's a reason I said it was embryonic.

However, collective action can change that.

It requires contributions of 480 points total from the league. These will be pooled year over year. In addition, the target to hit will drop 24 points per season. Contributions will be recorded per team (if an owner contributes, then leaves, whomever takes his spot will be credited with those points). Contributions will be silent until after the deadline.

There will be a public announcement of all contributions after the deadline, along with cumulative totals for the pool and by team.

When the threshold is reached:

The owner in each division who has contributed the most will declare the start year or the end year of the range of seasons. The number of seasons in the range will be determined by subtracting the division's contribution % (rounded down) from 36. After removing seasons of players currently under contract for the next season, the range will be contiguous. Years will be drawn in contribution % order. If there are not enough eligible seasons in the range of the pool that direction, the range will be changed to either having the start point at 1885 or end point at current edge of pool.

Ties will be broken by year, then amount of the first contribution. Contributions will be distributed equally among all teams at the end of the season, with odd ones going to teams in reverse winning % order.

Game 123-? - bid for draft positioning completed. Draft pick sales allowed. If seasons do not change, this will start at game 123. Otherwise it will start 7 days after the new seasons are assigned.

Tiebreakers for bids (or lack thereof): 1) Worst record 2) Worst Pythagorean % 3) Most runs allowed.

Draft picks may NEVER be traded. They can only be sold within the division between the draft positioning and the draft. A team cannot sell a pick it cannot use - if you have 21 players under contract, you can't sell your 5th round pick.

End of season

Roster compliance - all teams must cut their players not on/at the end of contract.

Bid redistribution - the league is a not-for-profit enterprise. Any points spent in season will be redistributed.

Teams receiving points:
1) 100-loss teams
2) Teams finishing at the bottom of their division

In order of worst record, any net bids collected will be distributed to the teams in the list. Tiebreakers for allocation order: Worst Pythagorean %, then most runs allowed. 100 loss teams will get two points of allocation at each step; others will get one.

Season change pool distribution: If the season changes, the points in the pool will be distributed to all teams, with extras going to the worst teams by record.

Anti-mercenary rule: teams must have 15 players on their rosters before the draft begins. Any open spots beyond 10 will cost 5 points per - with the points redistributed within the division to teams who are not penalized (worst record first - new teams at the end). If all teams in a given division are penalized, points will be distributed across the league to teams in compliance - worst record first with same tiebreakers.

Draft - in order as determined by bids and pick sales.

Other essential details:

Debt: Teams may NOT go into debt voluntarily. The only way to get into debt is by penalties or offering two-year contracts to ensure roster compliance at the end of the upcoming season. (Teams may opt not to offer contracts to 15 players in hopes of trading into compliance at the end of the season - but 12 roster spots at a minimum must have contracts at the beginning of the season). Teams going into debt may not offer contracts longer than 2 years. Debts will be paid off from the pool of new points distributed at the beginning of the new season. A team can mitigate up to half of that loss (rounded down) by taking an equivalent number of penalty losses. Penalty losses only count for playoff determination - not for point disbursement.

Administration: A team with a negative point balance is in administration. These teams cannot bid - they can only sell draft picks during the appropriate period in the calendar. They cannot trade (unless the trade in question pulls them out of debt). Points gained by being bumped from a division, trades, or selling draft picks will go to paying down the debt.

A team with a negative point balance at the end of the season (after bid redistribution/before roster compliance) folds - all players are free agents. If the owner wishes to continue, he may buy back his franchise rights with 50 points and assumption of debt. (He starts with 150 - debt from the old team - same division, draft position, etc. - any draft picks sold remain in possession of the previous purchaser.)

New ownership: An owner replacing a team has two choices:

1) Accept the team as is;
2) Fold and expand. The new owner inherits nothing but 160 points and the draft position/picks/division assignment of the previous team.

An owner replacing a team in administration would be foolish to choose option 1, so it is assumed they choose option 2. The new team comes in after the roster compliance deadline (so no penalties), but before redistribution of penalty points (new teams are put at the end of the line).

Trades: Trades must contain equal numbers of players on both sides. Teams may include up to 10 points per player sent, so long as the trade partner sending points remains at or above 0 points. Trades may only be completed between the period after the draft until the trade deadline. Teams trading before the season starts have submitted their contract statuses for drafted players, and they cannot change.

Stadiums: Pick the home stadium of one of your players that will not be a free agent at the end of the season.

No AAA or waiver wire. Clones are allowed. DH determined by popular vote among founding owners, but AL-only DH is only an option if teams are not forced to switch leagues involuntarily.

Clear as mud?

Some of the point values don't feel quite right to me, but I can't put my finger on why. I'd love input and feedback.

Did some tweaking. Maybe more than I should have but it seems about right.... ?

* All teams will get 1000 Points minimum for bidding and 100 years of service contracts to use.
* For the Initial Draft, each day 30-40 players will be up for bid in a Silent Auction via sitemail. We will start with the most expensive players and continue downward in Salary each day of the auction.
* Bids must be in 1 point minimum increments and 1 year in length of service contracts minimum. So the least you can bid is 1 + 1, (1 Point for 1 Year). Bids are due at midnight (EST) each night. Example bids: If you bid 80 points for 7 years and no one bids more than 80 you would get that player. You would then need to pay 80 points for the next 7 years. If someone bids 81 points for 3 years they would get that player because their Auction bid was more, 81 verses 80. In the case of a "points" tie, whoever has the longest service contract bid on a specific player wins that player. (Both owners bid 80 points but one wants 7 years and one wants 3 years then the owner who had 7 years wins that player).
* For every win the previous season you get to add 1 point to your 1000 point total. (Win 100 games and you now have 1100 points to use the next season).
* Going into the next season bids will be on Rookies & Free Agents with the points you have left in your point budget after your next season contracts have been deducted. Everyone must roster 25 players of course, but if you want, you can have up to 10 more players in AAA spots, 6/4, but you must pay points and assign length of contracts to those players also. If you have any extra points left after each season you will be allowed to carry half of those points into the next Season's Budget. Losing half of your points that are carried over will entice everyone to spend their points and not stockpile them.
* The winner of tied bids will be chosen randomly if the bids are the exact same number of points and exact same length of service contract.
* It is up to you how many years you want to keep each player for but once you are awarded a player with the length of service contract tied to him you must keep that player until the contract expires.
* You cannot go over 100 years of contracts at anytime and every player must get at least a 1 year contract. You cannot accumulate years if you don't use them. If you do not have any years of service contracts available to use then you cannot bid on players in the Auction.

Quick question:

"* It is up to you how many years you want to keep each player for but once you are awarded a player with the length of service contract tied to him you must keep that player until the contract expires."

That reads to me like trading is not allowed. Is that right?

Posted by reddtrain on 5/12/2021 8:45:00 PM (view original):
Quick question:

"* It is up to you how many years you want to keep each player for but once you are awarded a player with the length of service contract tied to him you must keep that player until the contract expires."

That reads to me like trading is not allowed. Is that right?

I should have added ... or is traded.

I think it sounds great. The only part I don’t really love is

“* The winner of tied bids will be chosen randomly if the bids are the exact same number of points and exact same length of service contract”

I think it’d be better to allow only the teams who are tied, to bid on that player again the next day. Team 1 ups their bid to 83 points/7 years, team 2 ups theirs to 84 points/7 years then
Team two would win the player.

Posted by chargingryno on 5/12/2021 9:30:00 PM (view original):
I think it sounds great. The only part I don’t really love is

“* The winner of tied bids will be chosen randomly if the bids are the exact same number of points and exact same length of service contract”

I think it’d be better to allow only the teams who are tied, to bid on that player again the next day. Team 1 ups their bid to 83 points/7 years, team 2 ups theirs to 84 points/7 years then
Team two would win the player.

I'm not opposed to rebidding. The chances of exactly the same bid happening wouldn't be very often so rebids wouldn't be a problem.

Question... I am unsure how this should be done...
How would the contract years be deducted and then added back to your total to use?
#1) If you give a 5 year contract to a player would you get 1 year back the 2nd season, another year back the 3rd season and so on...
or
#2) Should you have to wait until the end of the 5 year contract to get any of the years added back to your total?

Under scenario
#1) If you have 25 players using all 100 years then season 2 you'd have 25 to use.again and it would always be that amount unless you aren't using all of them to begin with.
#2) You would only have years to use of players that had 1 year contracts in season 2. (Example: 6 players had 1 year contracts so you only get 6 years back).

Scenario #2 would be much more restrictive until a few seasons down the road when you have players with multiple year contracts ending. (Example: 7 players have 1 year contracts and 4 players with 2 year contracts and 3 players with 5 year contracts are ending all the same season).Then you'd have 30 years available to use on 14 new players.

Just thinking ahead as to how it should be setup. Thoughts?

When I read it, I assumed it would be Scenario #1 - get back 25-35 years at the end of each season.

I think #2 is more strategic and interesting though. You would have to think about the upcoming drafts and figure out how many years you want to hand out to the top rookies/FAs. You'll know as the auction progresses what players will be out of commission for the upcoming season as well as the players who are not available this year but have a multi-year contract expiring. This may make the best move to NOT hand out all of your 100 available seasons. I could also see this adding value to players in the last year of a multi-year contract (clearing room for bids for players on unexpectedly-short contracts, for example).

Question: Is in-season trading allowed? If so, when two teams are both at 100 seasons, they have to trade the same number of cumulative years, right?

Personally, if I were to sign up I’d enjoy a more simplistic model. The contracts/bidding already offers a unique strategy and something different. Add too many changes and have too many wheels turning and it loses some of its purity IMO

Posted by chargingryno on 5/14/2021 5:38:00 PM (view original):
Personally, if I were to sign up I’d enjoy a more simplistic model. The contracts/bidding already offers a unique strategy and something different. Add too many changes and have too many wheels turning and it loses some of its purity IMO

yeah, starting to think that way as well

I love all these ideas, but I have just posted, somewhat in contrast to the complex systems proposed here, a very simple formula for a new progressive league - the Core 4 Progressive, starting in 1934. Please take a look at the ad, as everyone on this thread would be very, very welcome in the league.

I am going to let the bid system progressive idea pass for now. As much work as it would be I don't think it is something my time would allow right now.

I think Epup may be doing some preliminary research to see if there’s enough interest in the bidding idea to restart the Kingfiz CDL

Posted by chargingryno on 5/19/2021 4:39:00 PM (view original):
I think Epup may be doing some preliminary research to see if there’s enough interest in the bidding idea to restart the Kingfiz CDL

I have decided to try a restart to this league. The ad has been posted.