Posted by Benis on 10/15/2021 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mlitney on 10/15/2021 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 10/15/2021 12:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mlitney on 10/15/2021 10:55:00 AM (view original):
Like I said, anecdotal and a very small sample size, but here are the first 12 games of the season...

Game / Def Positioning / TO's Created
Game 1 / -2 / 17
Game 2 / -3 / 14
Game 3 / -2 / 19
Game 4 / -3 / 23
Game 5 / -2 / 15
Game 6 / +2 / 20
Game 7 / +2 / 20
Game 8 / +2 / 23
Game 9 / +2 / 21
Game 10 / +2 / 23
Game 11 / +2 / 19
Game 12 / +3 / 15

The last 2 games were against good human teams while the first 10 were against sims, but I think there's enough data to warrant a deeper dive. Does going + put more pressure on the opposing guards and create more TO's? It might just depend on the way your team is built. Like I said, my team is going to lose the rebounding battle every game, so I need to make up those possessions elsewhere. Maybe Benis likes to build a strong rebounding team so going - helps to accentuate that advantage.

You should do TO% which is turnover per possession. Otherwise you don't know if this increase or decrease in turnovers is influenced by tempo.

And no, I actually usually have terrible rebounding on my press teams.

Going to make me do some work today huh?

I got a calculator in Google sheets if you want it

I also have one, but I'd absolutely love to see your super top secret spreadsheets.

Game / Def Positioning / TO%
Game 1 / -2 / 22
Game 2 / -3 / 20
Game 3 / -2 / 21
Game 4 / -3 / 28
Game 5 / -2 / 16
Game 6 / +2 / 23
Game 7 / +2 / 25
Game 8 / +2 / 24
Game 9 / +2 / 26
Game 10 / +2 / 26
Game 11 / +2 / 21
Game 12 / +3 / 18

Posted by gillispie on 10/15/2021 12:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 10/15/2021 11:37:00 AM (view original):
I generally default to +1 with FB/P, and move up or down a couple from there. I’d be more inclined to go heavier negative sometimes if I could slow down (so not FB), but I generally carry only 4-5 rebounders max (sometimes only 3 good ones) so I don’t want to mess with frontcourt foul trouble.

On tempo, I suppose gil and I could rehash the debate we’ve had multiple times, but I’m not going to get into it past this post. I’ll just say I agree with Baums_away, I used the style years ago at D2 with Abilene Christian, it worked great, Baums and Kimball (to name a couple) are having great success with it at D1 now, and I’m coming back to it. If the team has enough stamina and balance to stay blue or better (or at least well ahead of the opponent), the speed and ball handling to avoid turnovers, and the ath/defense and IQ to avoid foul trouble, uptempo is a great choice for a FB/press team. Maximize possessions, if you have the team to do it.

i'll just say 2 things:

1) i think the OP was mostly asking about straight press (not fb/pr), although i generally maintain a similar posture re: uptempo press and uptempo fb/pr. the main difference is even a normal fb/pr is somewhat of a gimmick set (no negative connotation intended) based on depth and stamina. eschewing normal team building principles in the fb/fcp in favor of an uptempo stamina build is definitely more appropriate than doing so in straight press. for a lot of folks, that is the whole point of fb/fcp, and that is a perfectly reasonable way to get started with fb/fcp, how most folks get started, even if i don't think its the way to finish.

2) for someone new to press, adjusting to the higher depth requirements is usually a significant challenge, and i would generally suggest someone new to press goes with a straight press over fb/fcp where you can run slowdown to better survive those 10-man-deep teams and such. but also because i feel like it gives the opportunity to adjust to the press alone. fb/fcp is really a lot different, perhaps as different as motion/press and motion/man or something, so mostly what i am trying to say is, to someone new to press - don't look at fb/fcp and press guidance as interchangeable. there's overlap but pretty different systems overall. also i am a big fan of fb - fb used to get **** on a lot and i sort of think i played a decently big part in changing that. but i absolutely hated it at my first school, it really makes learning the game or new systems harder. so i generally hold fb in high regard but recommend newer coaches avoid it like the plague. and similarly i wouldn't experiment with a new defense, with fb, i would start with a 'regular' offense and then add fb in after. 1 step at a time if you will.

Yes thank you…..baby steps lol. Great thread though everyone very helpful and I appreciate it. Tons of great info to review as I move along!