Eliminate Prospect Budget Topic

gjello10
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/25/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By gjello10 on 1/25/2010

The way I set it up, it's definitionally rare. If it was a common draft class quality, you couldn't be confident of seeing a better one next year.



This is key. As I've been trying to tell you, you have no idea how anyone but you "sets it up". Once you get past that, you'll understand what I've been saying for 4 pages.
The way I set up my statement a class of qualifyingly low quality would be definitionally rare.
1/25/2010 12:14 PM
MikeT23
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I've tried, several times, to explain that you don't have enough experience to know if "poor" draft classes are rare. And, apparently, you don't understand how I can increase my chances to create a "poor" draft class by planning.
1/25/2010 12:21 PM
gjello10
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I do get that you can cause yourself to "see" a poor draft board. But that's not the same as the draft class being bad. Sure, if I go 0/0 scouting MY board will look bad every year. But, remember, we're talking about someone who is TRYING to build a farm system here. They're not going to want to do that on purpose. Punting picks is something an owner who it TRYING to win (either now or eventually) would only be likely (notice- I didn't say "ever") to do if the draft seemed to be actually bad, from his perspective.

My point is, the kind of 3-year plan you laid out is doable, of course, with the associated risk that some of these guys might just take your offer and you'll (1) lose the pick (since you didn't really want the player anyway- you were hoping he'd say no), and (2) no longer have the most IFA money. But it doesn't seem wise or prudent, under the cap system.

If anything, it seems like it's a system that would work better under the current, un-capped system, and yet it's not out there everywhere.

1/25/2010 12:28 PM
jc44
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Ok,i took over a team that had a long good run but had fallen to 66 wins and the owner dropped out.

He had maxed out payroll trying to win for and had spent very little on scouting or prospects for 6 years.

So i had a bad team with a high payroll and no farm system.

I traded away what i could from the ML team to rebuild farm system first.

I am trying to build thru the draft in hopes of when i get good i`ll be able to stay near the top for a long run.

I don`t want to spend a lot on FA right now because i want to max out my scouting to help my drafting and because i don`t think i can sign enough to be a playoff team anyway.

So i have a very low payroll but i check my lineup everyday.I`ve never ran out a SP less than 95% rested so i feel like i`m trying to win every game with what i have and not tanking.

I planned on spending 20M on coll,HS,int and adv scouting but i would have still been able to have more than 30M on prospects if i had chosen.

Why is that wrong?And why should i now be put at a disadvantage because some teams use that to tank?



1/25/2010 12:34 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By jc44 on 1/25/2010Ok,i took over a team that had a long good run but had fallen to 66 wins and the owner dropped out.

He had maxed out payroll trying to win for and had spent very little on scouting or prospects for 6 years.

So i had a bad team with a high payroll and no farm system.

I traded away what i could from the ML team to rebuild farm system first.

I am trying to build thru the draft in hopes of when i get good i`ll be able to stay near the top for a long run.

I don`t want to spend a lot on FA right now because i want to max out my scouting to help my drafting and because i don`t think i can sign enough to be a playoff team anyway.

So i have a very low payroll but i check my lineup everyday.I`ve never ran out a SP less than 95% rested so i feel like i`m trying to win every game with what i have and not tanking.

I planned on spending 20M on coll,HS,int & adv scouting but i would have still been able to have more than 30M on prospects if i had chosen.

Why is that wrong?And why should i now be put at a disadvantage because some teams use that to tank?





These are right from the Tanker's Handbook.

Not saying you're tanking but that's how they "rebuild".
1/25/2010 12:43 PM
jc44
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So it is wrong to try and build thru the draft?

You`ve said that you don`t have to use IFA to build but you seem to be implying (correct me if i`m wrong,i`m sure you will)
that if you don`t use FA to build then your a tanker?

Why should i be forced to build thru FA?
1/25/2010 1:00 PM
MikeT23
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You can do whatever you want.

But, if your first moves are to 1) trade away any BL talent that you can and 2) refuse to sign FA because you don't think you can be a playoff team, don't get all bent if someone says "Hey, that's straight from the Tanker's Handbook!!!"
1/25/2010 1:02 PM
jc44
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i`m not getting bent about anything.

I`m trying to ask a honest question.

If i believe that building a strong farm system is the most important part of building a strong team for the long run why is that wrong?

It is a opinion shared by some baseball people.

If i have what i feel are bad contracts and i can get rid of them in 1-2 seasons and start building a farm system instead of waiting 3-5 years for them to expire and get nothing in return is that wrong?

I feel like tanking is not trying to win games.I set my lineup and rotation every day to try and win.

how is that tanking?

Are you saying that if i`m not trying to win the world series every year i`m tanking and there should be no rebuilding?
1/25/2010 1:14 PM
MikeT23
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I'm saying when you strip your team of BL talent and don't replace it, you're not trying to win. You may be doing the best with what you have but winning is not your priority.

1/25/2010 1:16 PM
schuyler101
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Quote: Originally posted by jc44 on 1/25/2010i`m not getting bent about anything.

I`m trying to ask a honest question.

If i believe that building a strong farm system is the most important part of building a strong team for the long run why is that wrong?

It is a opinion shared by some baseball people.

If i have what i feel are bad contracts and i can get rid of them in 1-2 seasons and start building a farm system instead of waiting 3-5 years for them to expire and get nothing in return is that wrong?

I feel like tanking is not trying to win games.I set my lineup and rotation every day to try and win.

how is that tanking?

Are you saying that if i`m not trying to win the world series every year i`m tanking and there should be no rebuilding?

you're fine, it's a perfectly viable strategy to trade ML players from an aging team on the decline
1/25/2010 1:20 PM
tecwrg
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Is it fine to make little to no attempt to field a competitive team at the major league level?
1/25/2010 1:28 PM
examinerebb
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That's my biggest pet peeve, by far. Tanking doesn't mean you're not managing your team, it means you're not even attempting to field a competitive team. At the risk of turning this into a "look at me" post:

When I took back my Buffalo team in CAPB, the previous owners had all but destroyed the minors and a middling BL team. I traded away every one of my marketable BLers, but signed Type B or lesser FAs after the Rule 5 draft, just to stay competitive. I still have an uber-small payroll, but you can't sleep on my BL team, either. I'm in year two of the rebuild, have the lowest player payroll in the league, and currently sit at 74-84 at the big league level (73-89 last season). And I haven't had any of the prospects I've acquired at the big league level yet. The rebuild is still intact, I'm signing good draft picks and good IFAs, but I haven't lost 90 in a season (let alone 100, 110, 120, whatever). It's WAY too easy to build a cheap, fairly competitive team out of over free agents, and still have money to accumulate prospects, to excuse any "plan" that involves 100 loss seasons.
1/25/2010 1:29 PM
jc44
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Winning is my priority i just want to get to where i can do consistently.

If you don`t know the difference between building and tanking i see why we can`t agree on anything.

The high priced older players went 66-96 with a 100M+ payroll and i went 68-94 the next year with a 30M+ payroll so i don`t see where spending the money in FA just to say you spent the money the way MikeT says you should spend it is a better way.

I traded for players who were mostly in AA-AAA who i thought would be ready to help quickly not R-LA players to wait several seasons so i don`t see a problem with that.
1/25/2010 1:31 PM
MikeT23
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Says the guy who is doing this:


OCDTAC Puyallups13$71.3M59-103 (.364)4-
OCDTAC Puyallups14$27.2M51-111 (.315)4-
OCDTAC Puyallups15-31-64 (.326)--


Confirming that your strategy is acceptable isn't really a confirmation.
1/25/2010 1:31 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/25/2010
I'm saying when you strip your team of BL talent and don't replace it, you're not trying to win. You may be doing the best with what you have but winning is not your priority.



1/25/2010 1:33 PM
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