Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 1/01/2010
hey fellas, I have tried for a long time to understand ORs theories on this topic. Nearly everyone else, it seems, *gets it*.

let me throw this question out there to see if I can better understand ..

we talk alot about "heavy lifters" and I think OR and others mean "the folks who schedule a tough SOS".

here's a question, which of these teams is more of a "heavy-lifter"?
A- 10-0 200-SOS
B- 5-5 3-SOS


my opinion is that the "heavy lifters" are the best teams, and most times , those are the teams with the best rpis. i sense that those who are not "heavy lifters" are a bit frowned upon, but, i think it is just a case where those who are not heavylifteing just dont have as good of teams.

you cant really judge anything at the end of OOC play. a 5 SOS could turn into a 205 SOS and vice versa. The perfect example was taz and his Chicago team in the upstate. season after season he would schedule the 10 toughest teams in wooden... Say he finished OOC with a 6-4 record. His RPI would usually be in the mid 100's and his SOS in the mid 200's. This is due to the fact that his opponents scheduled equally tough as well and were all 5 or 6 win teams.. . .

Now fast forward to conference game #5. Taz is now 8-4 and all his OOC opponents are 10-4. His SOS plummets from 240 to 40. And while his SOS "said" it was over 200 when conference play started, it really ends up being a Top 3 SOS when OOC is isolated at the end of the season.

As to your question: whats a heavy-lifter? At the end of conference play, its the coaches that have wins against teams with better RPI's and very few losses against teams with worse. Anyone in the Top 25 for RPI is an automatic "heavy-lifter"

I'm sure we could figure out some point system. zero points for wins against lower RPIs. zero for losses against better RPI. +1 when you beat a better RPI and -1 when you lose to a worse RPI.

the absolute lock for good RPI for a decent team, is to schedule 10 road games against teams you think will be around 100 rpi - if you go 6-4 you have done your job, any better than that and you have really helped your conference

in terms of RPI

road wins >>>>>>>>> home wins
road losses <<<<<<<<< home losses

it creates sort of a false sense of accomplishment for your team, but it helps get you in the the NT in the long run

i believe one year at St Johns (i think dave and OR were in that conf at the time), i finished below 500 (by one stinking game) and had a 28 RPI

did you make the NT tracyr????

nope - you can't with a losing record unless you win your conference tourney

Quote: Originally Posted By mrpolo09 on 1/01/2010
I'm trying to say this in the least arrogant way, but there's nothing missing.

Really? Are you including the loss that the 18-8 team gave to the 6-20 in their SOS calculation?

If you are, then you are missing something.

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Quote: Originally posted by tracyr on 1/01/2010the absolute lock for good RPI for a decent team, is to schedule 10 road games against teams you think will be around 100 rpi - if you go 6-4 you have done your job, any better than that and you have really helped your conferencein terms of RPIroad wins >>>>>>>>> home wins
road losses <<<<<<<<< home lossesit creates sort of a false sense of accomplishment for your team, but it helps get you in the the NT in the long run

This would be an ideal way to take advantage of the RPI system. More importantly, an excellent piece of advice.

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ah, i totally understand. its 4am and just got back from the bars, so i have no clue why i'm understanding it now, but that a whole other subject. i have always said that my brain works better under the influence so maybe its true

i'll mull this over when i get up and see if i can figure things out.

lostmyth is right. If Team A, 18-8, beat you, you consider their record to be 17-8.

And, I think, if they beat you twice, you'd figure 17-8 twice, not 16-8.

I kinda see what both sides are saying. With my experience with scheduling and dominant conferences its much better for your conference to win a bunch of OOC games.

Sure, if everyone makes just a complete cupcake SOS that is ranked in the 300s then its not going to be near as effective. If you're in a really good conference though you can schedule teams that you'll expect to be around .500 and win 7-10 of them. If everyone does that then your conference RPI is going to be fantastic by the end of the season. Better than if everyone scheduled hard and the conference OOC record not being much over .500.

Lost mentioned the CAA in Naismith a while back that really focused on getting OOC wins. We sent more teams to the NT and PI than conferences with more talent every season.

alright, i was with ya kelby till the last part there...

so the CAA has got you and LM, and i'm sure a few other big shot coaches. . . and you say the "other" conferences were more talented? ha, get the F outta here with that nonsense!