Quote: Originally Posted By reinsel on 6/08/2010
I can't see how anyone would want to go back to the pre-potential days. I have a pretty good run at D3, and at Lebanon Valley in PA I recruited players from Washington State, Alaska, New Mexico, Texas, you name it. I didn't need to scout, and it was just as simple as checking the 10 drop downs each cycle til I hit on the players I wanted, and then I set my practice plans and never changed em.

Now, you have to be constantly changing practice plans since improvement isn't linear (not that it was before, but the cap on every stat was 100), there is more challenge to everything involving player development....do I max out my SF's passing or bh first? I need more rebounding, so should i develop my guards 10+average rebounding?

Before you could never improve a 1 reb in a guard....never, and people didn't complain about that much. Now a guard is maxed at 20 rebounding, and people complain that how could someone not improve at all with 20 minutes of practice in rebounding...

Totally, 100% agreed. There are other areas that obviously need to be addressed, but potential/FSS is just a clear improvement over the previous boring, linear, predictable, silly system, and as reinsel points out, it has also added additional layers of strategy in recruiting that have made the game better.

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you guys would not have done well with jim jones

OR, I know you are a great coach, but I don't understand why the pre-potential days were more interesting for you. I hear the comment that "you could train your team into anything you want", but I still think that is doable now.

You were a coach that put 20 minutes in FT%, then recruit guys with high potential in FT%, if it was rebounding you concentrated in, get high potential rebounding guys...what did I not take advantage of that was so great about the old system?

I know that good coaches could get an extra 5 pts/player/year by smart practice minute allocations...I always could, but I don't really miss that. I can still win without it, and you obviously can as well.

Quote: Originally posted by reinsel on 6/08/2010OR, I know you are a great coach, but I don't understand why the pre-potential days were more interesting for you.  I hear the comment that "you could train your team into anything you want", but I still think that is doable now.You were a coach that put 20 minutes in FT%, then recruit guys with high potential in FT%, if it was rebounding you concentrated in, get high potential rebounding guys...what did I not take advantage of that was so great about the old system?I know that good coaches could get an extra 5 pts/player/year by smart practice minute allocations...I always could, but I don't really miss that.  I can still win without it, and you obviously can as well.

i understand the current system pretty well, I have no problem with it, I get lots of sitemails, I told another top coach today, I think seble has nailed the improvement level in the new engine, at least with the old generated recruits, we'll see when his red brigade shows up soon, but I liked the old way better, I had more options, as you said in your reply, now you have to recruit it (your words 'get it') - recruiting was already way too important, the new FSS only makes it more important relative to all other things, but whatever, really not a big deal, the ship has sailed on that issue, and I do adapt, real well, I already am adapting to lots of the glitches in the new engine, doesn't mean I have to enjoy 50 point road loses to teams I am equal to.

if you know the coolaid is poisoned, why would you encourage others to drink it?

i preferred the pre-potential system to the system now where players max out so early. potential eliminated a huge what if in practice planning while simply making already important recruiting even more important.

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 6/08/2010i preferred the pre-potential system to the system now whereplayers max out so early. potential eliminated a huge what if in practice planning while simply making already important recruiting even more important

Agreed that was a big drawback of the old potential system. But the new potential system looks to have cured that, with lower starting ratings and slower development.

Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 6/08/2010you guys would not have done well with jim jone

Hilarious.

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 6/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 6/08/2010
i preferred the pre-potential system to the system now whereplayers max out so early. potential eliminated a huge what if in practice planning while simply making already important recruiting even more important.

Agreed that was a big drawback of the old potential system. But the new potential system looks to have cured that, with lower starting ratings and slower development.

so like two weeks in we already feel like we understand players 4 year development patterns?

i either need to become a math nerd, start keeping spreadsheets, or get the secret cheat codes.

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player development and the new created players was the thing that i think we worked most on in the beta. Though i agree it'll take 4 years at least before we're sure.

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 6/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 6/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 6/08/2010
i preferred the pre-potential system to the system now whereplayers max out so early. potential eliminated a huge what if in practice planning while simply making already important recruiting even more important.

Agreed that was a big drawback of the old potential system. But the new potential system looks to have cured that, with lower starting ratings and slower development.

so like two weeks in we already feel like we understand players 4 year development patterns?

i either need to become a math nerd, start keeping spreadsheets, or get the secret cheat codes.

I'm not even sure that I would know how to put a spreadsheet together if I tried.

But I participated in the beta and saw the effects there, saw the charts that other spreadsheet-inclined coaches put together and have seen what's happened so far in worlds like Allen and Tark. The effects are pretty clear.
Interesting to see exactly how rosters look when they are full of the new recruits -- certainly different than they do currently.

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 6/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 6/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 6/08/2010
i preferred the pre-potential system to the system now whereplayers max out so early. potential eliminated a huge what if in practice planning while simply making already important recruiting even more important.

Agreed that was a big drawback of the old potential system. But the new potential system looks to have cured that, with lower starting ratings and slower development.

so like two weeks in we already feel like we understand players 4 year development patterns?

i either need to become a math nerd, start keeping spreadsheets, or get the secret cheat codes.

That amount of time seems more than long enough for people to declare something a failure.

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 6/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 6/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 6/08/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 6/08/2010
i preferred the pre-potential system to the system now whereplayers max out so early. potential eliminated a huge what if in practice planning while simply making already important recruiting even more important.

Agreed that was a big drawback of the old potential system. But the new potential system looks to have cured that, with lower starting ratings and slower development.

so like two weeks in we already feel like we understand players 4 year development patterns?

i either need to become a math nerd, start keeping spreadsheets, or get the secret cheat codes.

That amount of time seems more than long enough for people to declare something a failure.

perception might as well be reality, and this roll-out has quite understandably not met many users expectations. one could argue wis has done everything possible to lower HD users expectations over the past few years, but some users still foolishly had hope this product would be much better prepared, tested, and rolled-out than it has been.

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...

The idea that you weren't switching your practice plans up pre-potential is a huge misconception, if you were doing it right. Now, I set the practice plan on Day 1, check it on Day 2 as compared to the Asst Coach email, then only move minutes out when I'm told to by the emails. Why is that? A huge part was the maxing out by their Jr (or So) years. More so, because the range of improvement is set when the recruit is generated. You know exactly what that player is capable of and that is the ONLY thing the player is capable of.

I hate that potential takes away from molding your team, once a player is on the roster. Let's say I have a So. SF and Sr. PF and my intention is to recruit a Fr. PF during this season, so that the Seniors spot is covered when he leaves. If I whiff, I'm screwed. A nice perk of the old system is that it gave me a full season to really pump Reb for that SF and then I could slide him over the next year.

Many of the people that grew to hate the old system did so because it turned into Track Star Dynasty (as vandy calls it). But the issue wasn't that you could keep pushing those D2/D3 guards to 90+ speed, it was what that 90 Spd (and low defense in many cases) could do in a press. If the difference between 60, 70, 80 and 90 Spd was adjusted appropriately, how you built your teams would reflect that. This isn't a chicken/egg scenario. The problem was the engine.