Free Agent Bidding Topic

deathinahole
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"I know some people don't like the "real life" arguments, but I think it applies here. If I have $10mil to spend, I should be able to send out 3 different $10mil offers. Then as soon as one guy signs, I have my player and the other two are withdrawn. It's stupid to have to pick only one guy that you can make an offer to. "

This is his statement.

How the software would respond is not real life.
1. No way a smart and devious owner just picks 3.
2. Even if they did, no way in real life does 3 players sit and twiddle their thumbs until the franchise picks which one of them it wants.
3. As Mike pointed out, in real life, you do not have the process tied up for 3/4 of the FA bidding time. Even if you reduced it, you still would have the ability to pooch other owners while these fake players tell their fake agents "gee, I hope he picks me!!!"
11/18/2010 4:42 PM
isack24
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Posted by deathinahole on 11/18/2010 4:34:00 PM (view original):
Glaringly obvious that, if I have the most payroll to offer, and there's an update that would allow multiple bids as jtsops has it laid out, that anyone with the most payroll available could max contract anyone worth their salt and screw any other owner out of the FA process until one signs?

Do point it out for us, o wise one.

No, the difference between the Yankees being able to offer everyone a contract and being able to do so in HBD.

Real people have real emotions.  First, by offering a bunch of people contracts that everyone knows they can't afford, it's only going to annoy the crap out of all of the players who will be left in limbo waiting to hear if they are the lucky one the Yankees decide to sign.  That will probably backfire, don't you think?

Second, in real life, players will simply accept on the spot if offered an above-market contract (or at least accept quickly).  The Yankees aren't going to then say, "wait a sec, we know we offered you a contract, but we need wait to see if others accept our contract first."  That wouldn't fly with players, and it certainly wouldn't fly with the MLBPA, which would file grievances immediately.

So no, the two are completely incomparable.

11/18/2010 5:20 PM
isack24
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The point is, no one is saying that's what teams should be able to do in real life, and just because certain things about real life are being compared to HBD, that doesn't necessarily mean all things must be.
11/18/2010 5:26 PM
deathinahole
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Ok, we basically agree, we just disagree on the wording and/or context of the comparable scenario.

I hereby crown you alright with me. Consider it an honour.
11/18/2010 5:38 PM
isack24
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I do!
11/18/2010 5:45 PM
tropicana
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You shouldn't...
11/18/2010 7:10 PM
nfet
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fwiw, I would agree that the bidding process (FA and IFA) could be improved a lot.  I don't think allowing teams to throw around money they don't have is the way to go...there are better ways to make it better.

Having the players' decision reflect the actual bidding more would be great, and would create a lot more decision points.  Reward offers that go big early, or make a substantial jump.  For one, a owner with only 10mil can know right away the type of bidding was he's in and use that money in another place if they want. 
11/18/2010 9:40 PM
tufft
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I've tried to figure out how MikeT could game the system with his strategy.  I keep coming up with him getting screwed if he tries it.

Let's say Mike had $10M in FA money and I have $9M.

There are 3 very good SP FAs.

Mike offers each of them $10M.  I offer each of the $9M.  Knowing that at any time, if we don't withdraw our bids, any of them could accept.  If 2 or more accept the same cycle, the game decides which one we get.  We don't get to pick.  If we weren't willing to pay that much, we shouldn't have made the offer.

At the end of the cycle, Mike gets 3 messages that tell him he's #1 for each SP.  I get 3 messages that tell me I'm not.

I don't withdraw any offers, because I know that there a chance that Mike and other owners have multiple offers out and that might make my $9M top bid one one of them if I wait.

If in the next 24 (or whatever) hours, if nobody tops Mike's bid on 1 or more of the 3 SPs, he gets one of them.  If 2 decide to sign, game picks one and Mike gets the Congratulations message.  Since he no longer has the FA money for the other bids, they are automatically withdrawn.

If that signing makes me top bidder on one of the remaining SPs, I get a message from that FA telling me I'm now #1.  If nobody out bids me for 24 (whatever) hours, I get him.

How does this drive up FA pricing?  How can Mike game the system and ruin it for the other owners?  I'm not seeing it.  If Mike makes a bunch of high bids, he could end up with that player at that price.

What is the obvious hole I'm missing?
11/19/2010 4:27 PM
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deathinahole
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That there's more than just 2 owners in that league. Thus, if you wait and never become #1, and instead get three "FU, I'm with another team" messages, then you're fighting for the equivalent of Darren Oliver off of what's left in the FA heap.
11/19/2010 4:37 PM
deathinahole
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TS!
11/19/2010 4:38 PM
tufft
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/19/2010 4:34:00 PM (view original):
That  I wouldn't mind at all in getting the best pitcher?    That you don't know if I've bid 10m or not at all and another owner has bid 9.1m?  That you might miss out on all three if you hold at 9m?
Sorry, but I don't see any of these as being a problem.  At least nothing new.  I can't see any way these points have anything to do with the discussion.

I can make the decision to also bid on some lesser quality FA SPs.  If I get one of them, and that doesn't leave me with enough to support the $9M bids, those are withdrawn.

The way it works now, we all have to make an artificial choice to focus a very few FAs.  Very restricted option to determine what players we like at what price.

I think it would be a better game if we could had, say $10M to spend and we could bid according to how we valued the players.

$10M on Player1
$8M on Player 2
$5M on Player 3

Knowing that we'd at best get one.  And and be happy with having paid what we thought the player was worth.

The way it works now, if I chase any one of these 3, there's a good chance I get none of them.  Even if I would have offered more than Player3 signed for while I was bidding on and losing Player1.

11/19/2010 5:31 PM
tufft
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Posted by deathinahole on 11/19/2010 4:37:00 PM (view original):
That there's more than just 2 owners in that league. Thus, if you wait and never become #1, and instead get three "FU, I'm with another team" messages, then you're fighting for the equivalent of Darren Oliver off of what's left in the FA heap.
This is exactly the situation that is very likely under the current system and would become less likely if we could over bid our budget.

While I'm bidding on the top 3, I could also make offers to lesser SPs.  If I get one of them, and I don't have $9M left, the other offers are canceled.

If I want to go for all or nothing on the top 3, I don't make other offers.

If I want to make several offers, happy to get any of those players at that price, I can do that.

IMO, more options and flexibility makes for a better game for more players.  Fewer options make it a better game for the very few of you have that been playing for a long time and know exactly how to game the current rules and systems.

11/19/2010 5:41 PM
MikeT23
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If you don't see it as a problem, you don't see it as a problem.  I'm not going to attempt to convince you.  But it would be a problem.
11/19/2010 5:42 PM
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