Posted by girt25 on 1/28/2011 9:48:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 1/28/2011 9:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 1/28/2011 7:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by fmschwab on 1/27/2011 11:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mjp8 on 1/27/2011 1:48:00 PM (view original):
There are 200 things that could be done to improve the game before this idea, whether the idea is good or not is an argument that doesn't need to be had.

Priorities are all out of whack it seems

Exactly! What about all of the other things that people have been complaining about forever?!

It's not that I mind this idea so much. I think it's fine I guess. Not great, not the worst thing ever.

But what I would really like seble to explain (and I think he truly owes us the explanation) is why in the heck he's working on this when there are so many other things that people would rather see done. Some of them are big, but many are smaller and could be easily accomplished instead of this.

That's what really bothers me about this.

I think this is more of my point. I don't like the change, I think it's spoon feeding, but my bigger issue truly is that seble would be focusing on that when there are so many other thing that game needs, and so many other things we've been asking for. Makes me feel like he's not listening and/or is out-of-touch.

You are assuming a lot here daalty.

How do you know seble is not currently working on other aspects of HD? Because he asked if coaches wanted an additional recruiting tool? Do you think he can't multitask or delegate one function to one employee and another to someone else?

I don't understand why the HD community feels 'obligated' to have input in ALL changes, hell, even ANY changes to HD. When was the last time your employer asked you or any customers how to run their business? Some in the HD community make it sound like inmates should run the prison, students should teach the class, and customers should run the business.

Seble is simply asking if wis should spend time adding a recruiting tool. I can say with absolute certainty his team is working on other aspects of the game (i.e. job process) right now. You are reading way too much into a simple question and btw ---- just cause he's asking does not even mean you will see a new recruiting sort tool feature in 2011. This is WIS - when was the last time they released something new in a timely manner?

Moy, we've been begging since the dawn of time for better communication, more transparency and more input. It's easy to do, not to mention Business 101 and basic customer service.

If we had even a smidgen of that, I wouldn't have to make any assumptions. We'd know the basics of what was going on (we don't need all of the intricate details, but the basics). But when we get absolutely nothing, and issues we've been begging about for months and years get no response, and then the first thing we do hear is about a superfluous recruiting tool, well ...

All he needs to do is basic outreach/communication/customer service, and this problem vanishes.

basic CS is answering support tickets - not going above and beyond to cater to the vocal minority on the message boards that demand to know everything... or in fmschwabs case, feel wis 'owes' it to them.

btw - more communication may be easy to do - but its all time consuming and costly as well.

Then we have a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes basic. (Imagine that!)

I don't think it's costly; he doesn't have to spend oodles of time doing it. I'd actually argue that it's far, far costlier not to do it -- because it results in disgruntled, uninformed customers, lack of activity and debate, etc. Just by his one post he got two very active threads going. I think it's a no-brainer.

Posted by girt25 on 1/28/2011 10:33:00 AM (view original):
Then we have a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes basic. (Imagine that!)

I don't think it's costly; he doesn't have to spend oodles of time doing it. I'd actually argue that it's far, far costlier not to do it -- because it results in disgruntled, uninformed customers, lack of activity and debate, etc. Just by his one post he got two very active threads going. I think it's a no-brainer.

and what was really accomplished by these two active threads? a bunch of unproductive bickering? some say yes, some say no, some say do both as a change....

then the threads veer off topic and we have people complaining about WIS, then about what WIS is working on and in what order, then about WIS owes explainations, and now about WIS CS and how they should run their business.

seems like a waste of time to do this every time they have an inkling of an idea for the game.

First, they don't need to do it every single time they have an inkling for the game. They just need to keep people abreast of the basics on a semi-regular basis. It's not hugely time consuming at all, and it's pretty much a business basic.

At least his post provoked thought, discussion, etc. And that's what we need -- a healthy HD forum w. lots of participation and active debate helps the lifeblood and overall health of HD.

Came into this late, I see nothing wrong with the idea to add some tools to calculate recruits, I would used them all the time, I sometimes do something like this, but if I had it as part of the game, I would use it, and enjoy it - I would put this in the category with calculating plus minus on the floor, which I think would even the playing field for all coaches which 'might' hurt me individually (assuming I have a better idea than most on who is plus and who is minus), but would be fun to see and use.

Sorry dan, I don't see the harm, and each and every change is not going to be either yours or my number one priority, I sort of get this one, not saying it would have been my first choice, but there is nothing wrong with it, my advice, go for it seble.

i appreciate the effort and posting on here by seble and WIS, but, respectfully, it comes off to me as more of a distraction to divert attention from the many engine related things they could work on...it's probably not why they would think of this "out of left field" idea - but it certainly could have that effect

i would use this feature almost certainly - and there would be a layer of fun added to the game...however i think recruiting is one of the last places (besides recruit generation) that needs work right now.

Posted by oldresorter on 1/28/2011 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Came into this late, I see nothing wrong with the idea to add some tools to calculate recruits, I would used them all the time, I sometimes do something like this, but if I had it as part of the game, I would use it, and enjoy it - I would put this in the category with calculating plus minus on the floor, which I think would even the playing field for all coaches which 'might' hurt me individually (assuming I have a better idea than most on who is plus and who is minus), but would be fun to see and use.

Sorry dan, I don't see the harm, and each and every change is not going to be either yours or my number one priority, I sort of get this one, not saying it would have been my first choice, but there is nothing wrong with it, my advice, go for it seble.

OR, my real issue (and thus the harm) is that they're spending valuable time and energy on superfluous items like this rather than the core items (big and/or small) that people have been clamoring for and/or badly need to be addressed. Every minute spent on this is a minute not spent on something else.

Posted by fmschwab on 1/27/2011 11:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mjp8 on 1/27/2011 1:48:00 PM (view original):
There are 200 things that could be done to improve the game before this idea, whether the idea is good or not is an argument that doesn't need to be had.

Priorities are all out of whack it seems

Exactly! What about all of the other things that people have been complaining about forever?!

It's not that I mind this idea so much. I think it's fine I guess. Not great, not the worst thing ever.

But what I would really like seble to explain (and I think he truly owes us the explanation) is why in the heck he's working on this when there are so many other things that people would rather see done. Some of them are big, but many are smaller and could be easily accomplished instead of this.

That's what really bothers me about this.

You mean like the small engine and gameplay tweaks that are supposed to come out next week, including work on shooting percentages?  Things like that?

Posted by girt25 on 1/28/2011 3:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 1/28/2011 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Came into this late, I see nothing wrong with the idea to add some tools to calculate recruits, I would used them all the time, I sometimes do something like this, but if I had it as part of the game, I would use it, and enjoy it - I would put this in the category with calculating plus minus on the floor, which I think would even the playing field for all coaches which 'might' hurt me individually (assuming I have a better idea than most on who is plus and who is minus), but would be fun to see and use.

Sorry dan, I don't see the harm, and each and every change is not going to be either yours or my number one priority, I sort of get this one, not saying it would have been my first choice, but there is nothing wrong with it, my advice, go for it seble.

OR, my real issue (and thus the harm) is that they're spending valuable time and energy on superfluous items like this rather than the core items (big and/or small) that people have been clamoring for and/or badly need to be addressed. Every minute spent on this is a minute not spent on something else.

Valuable time wasted? Have they even started working on this or is it simply an idea? For all I know Seble was drinking some beers with a few buddies one night when they started talking about this idea.... he went to work the next day and posted on here to gauge interest. That's not a waste of valuable time and energy, at least to me.

edit.... If I'm wrong I'd agree.... it would be just plain stupid to be halfway through development before gauging interest.

unfortunately i havent found any guys to drink beer and discuss WIS with. lol.

Posted by jetwildcat on 1/28/2011 5:03:00 PM (view original):
unfortunately i havent found any guys to drink beer and discuss WIS with. lol.

This is where I plug the annual wis wrigleyfest 2011 in Chicago. Golf, all you can eat meat, cubs game, streetfest. See you in august ;)

Seldom, very seldom, probably, do I find my self on Moy's side of a disagreement and not on Dan's.
However in this instance,,, I look at threads like this one and Cheez's and think guys.... what's so wrong with the game right now?

I tend to agree that maybe rebounding is just a tad off to me.... (a feeling), the recruit generation is extremely diluted down (for sure).... but right now who cares... there aren't enough people playing to use the recruits being generated... FG % and 3pt% are a little too high... but they are for everyone.

I have been here in some form or fashion for over 4 years... have half a dozen titles over several accounts including all 3 levels. Played well over 100 seasons... I currently have at least one team still in each of the 3 divisions.... I think I am a veteran of this game.... and guys the games not broken, even tho some really want to think it is.

I hated potential........ I played FCP before VD talked over half of all humans to run FCP........ I hated when they nuetered the FCP.... there have been alot of other changes I really hated when they first happened..... cause I HATE CHANGE!
However, I get bored... I drop a few teams... I auto-pilot another one or two.... but I don't spend every waking minute on here screaming the sky is falling.
Take a breath,,,, go do something else for a bit.... a day, a week,,,, 6-months.... get over it, it's a game... but it's a real fun and adicting one.

There will never be a time this forum doesn't have several threads.... screaming the games broke because I got beat last night and shoulda own'd those guys!
But hey... that's what all forums look like, so look up... the sky is really still blue, and it's really not falling and this game is still alot of fun if you want it to be.

It's just different than it use to be

P.S. and Dan, I really believe your main interest is in making the game better for all involved.... but you need to back up a little, take a deep breath and enjoy those titles you keep winning

drinking beer is never a waste of time

While it's true that I have my head up my ***, I don't have it SO far up my *** that when enough coaches whose opinions I respect disagree with me, I won't reconsider my position.

And this just might be one of those times.

Let me think about this more. Maybe I overreacted. I still won't say that I like it, but maybe it's not as bad as I thought.

Maybe I ... what's the word the kids are using these days? ... overreacted.

Let me think about it.

made me laugh daalt ;)