Personally I think PC does have an effect, along with AS/AA (I think good fielding catchers are very important). I actually have had the same Catcher platoon for 5 seasons now, and compared them below. Kuo had 91 PC all 5 seasons, while Pelfrey had 79 S16 and 80 the other 4.

Player Profile: James Kuo - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports
S16 2.76
S17 2.90
S18 3.75
S19 2.90
S20 2.91
Average = 3.04

Player Profile: Houston Pelfrey - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports
S16 3.79
S17 3.49
S18 3.28
S19 2.97
S20 2.85
Average = 3.276

About the difference I would expect for a 11 point difference, maybe even more of a difference. Kuo has an elite arm as well, so maybe that helps too.

So here is the latest update... Once again I kind of screwed up and let him play more than he was supposed to, but I verified with box scores and the data is accurate:

Player	Games	Runs	Hits	BB's	K's
Luis Ortiz	25	109	208	89	155
Javier Duran	25	110	241	83	170
Luis Ortiz	29	109	225	86	195
Javier Duran	34	207	349	113	223

My general belief is 90+ pc is what you need to really make an impact. 70 vs 50 is splitting hairs. Don't care enough to do a study on it. PC can matter if you want it to. The question is can you ever find a 90 PC guy that can hit his weight?

Posted by slashtc on 1/22/2021 11:06:00 AM (view original):
My general belief is 90+ pc is what you need to really make an impact. 70 vs 50 is splitting hairs. Don't care enough to do a study on it. PC can matter if you want it to. The question is can you ever find a 90 PC guy that can hit his weight?

This is exactly the point. The player generator within the sim generates 98% DH/Cs and Glove-only guys. From what I've seen I'd guess most worlds have maybe two or three Franchise catchers at a time, at best. So the question is, with the players available to you, which compromise do you choose?

Posted by pray4pro on 1/20/2021 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Personally I think PC does have an effect, along with AS/AA (I think good fielding catchers are very important). I actually have had the same Catcher platoon for 5 seasons now, and compared them below. Kuo had 91 PC all 5 seasons, while Pelfrey had 79 S16 and 80 the other 4.

Player Profile: James Kuo - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports
S16 2.76
S17 2.90
S18 3.75
S19 2.90
S20 2.91
Average = 3.04

Player Profile: Houston Pelfrey - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports
S16 3.79
S17 3.49
S18 3.28
S19 2.97
S20 2.85
Average = 3.276

About the difference I would expect for a 11 point difference, maybe even more of a difference. Kuo has an elite arm as well, so maybe that helps too.

I really like this platoon. I'd probably have Pelfrey as my starter against lefties and Kia the starter vs. eighties. Then have Kuo as the player rest and defensive replacement.

I have a similar C in Moneyball that has a 50 percent caught stealing stat for his career. He doesn't hit as well as Kuo though.

That’s exactly what I do lol. It’s perfect because Kuo has about the durability to start 2/3 of games, while Pelfrey is about 1/3.

Funny I got Kuo as a DITR and Pelfrey as an unsigned draft pick from the prior season.

Posted by slashtc on 1/22/2021 11:06:00 AM (view original):
My general belief is 90+ pc is what you need to really make an impact. 70 vs 50 is splitting hairs. Don't care enough to do a study on it. PC can matter if you want it to. The question is can you ever find a 90 PC guy that can hit his weight?

That could definitely be true. I was looking at high 80s, 70s, 50s, and even 20s. It's possible that it doesn't make a difference until you get to 90+, because I didn't really look at any of those (because I didn't have any). If that's the case though, there just aren't a lot of those out there that aren't a complete black hole in the lineup.

Posted by McGirkTheJer on 1/22/2021 1:07:00 AM (view original):
So here is the latest update... Once again I kind of screwed up and let him play more than he was supposed to, but I verified with box scores and the data is accurate:

Player	Games	Runs	Hits	BB's	K's
Luis Ortiz	25	109	208	89	155
Javier Duran	25	110	241	83	170
Luis Ortiz	29	109	225	86	195
Javier Duran	34	207	349	113	223

McGirk, this is really interesting, thanks for doing this and especially the better level of data than I had. This highlights how difficult it can be to reach solid conclusions, and why different people do in-depth analysis and come to different conclusions.

In their first stints, Ortiz and Duran were basically equivalent. So PC clearly doesn't matter.
But in their second chances, Duran had his pitchers get destroyed. So clearly PC is extremely important.

People looking at either of those smaller samples alone will reasonably come to different conclusions. I'm excited to keep following your data.

Well, I finally went full-in on this one. I had a lot of good hitters and couldn't fit them all into the lineup so in a desperation move to get them all in, I played the entire season with Chris Savage (23 PC) as my catcher. 154 games, 1400 innings, never appeared at any other position.

Final results were a 3.49 CERA (#3 in the league), a 45% caught-stealing rate, and he was named an All-Star at catcher. Oh yeah, and he won the Gold Glove too. We ended up losing the WS in 6 games after losing my starting SS.

For this season he's penciled in as my starting catcher again. I do need to trade some hitters (due to a lineup crunch), but if he moves, my backup option at C will be likely one of my 3B/SS options.

Definitely nice to know that this can be done. Thanks for posting.

Posted by tlowster on 9/28/2021 9:27:00 PM (view original):
Definitely nice to know that this can be done. Thanks for posting.

Agreed, now I'd be curious to see this done with someone who has a PC rating that is in the 0-10 range to see if it truly has no effect or if the minimum is just way lower than we already thought

Posted by krindor on 9/29/2021 9:04:00 AM (view original):
Well, I finally went full-in on this one. I had a lot of good hitters and couldn't fit them all into the lineup so in a desperation move to get them all in, I played the entire season with Chris Savage (23 PC) as my catcher. 154 games, 1400 innings, never appeared at any other position.

Final results were a 3.49 CERA (#3 in the league), a 45% caught-stealing rate, and he was named an All-Star at catcher. Oh yeah, and he won the Gold Glove too. We ended up losing the WS in 6 games after losing my starting SS.

For this season he's penciled in as my starting catcher again. I do need to trade some hitters (due to a lineup crunch), but if he moves, my backup option at C will be likely one of my 3B/SS options.

Keep in mind these numbers were posted in OKC in the NL with a one season sample size. That said I generally agree PC is a tad overrated and will often play sub 50 PC in exchange for better bats (although not as low as 23)

I probably won't use a premium infielder as a C. Not because it's a bad idea, but because typically a C is easier to find than an infielder. In fact, I think I've only ever had one team that had an abundance of infielders and when I do, I usually just throw him out in CF. It's nice to know that if im short on C's, but over on infielders, I can likely throw one at C and be okay, but it will likely be a rare occurrence. Nonetheless, as stated above, it's nice to know and thank you for posting.

I'd be interested to see the pitch quality of the major pitchers on the staff as well. That would definitely have a major effect on how this idea works.

Posted by minihouston on 9/30/2021 5:24:00 PM (view original):
I'd be interested to see the pitch quality of the major pitchers on the staff as well. That would definitely have a major effect on how this idea works.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing.