Posted by GM223 on 8/28/2019 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 2:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by GM223 on 8/28/2019 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 1:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by franklynne on 8/28/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
"irrelevant to the conversation about D2/D3 battling D1s for recruits."??
why?? given that there are many D2-D3 teams in HD that have D1 quality players..why??

I'll back up.

In real life, d2 and d3 teams do not "battle" against d1 schools for recruits.

In real life, players do not choose to go to a d3 school when they have a full ride scholarship offer from a d1 school. Especially a B6 school.

In HD, these instances are common place and the norm.

Therefore, HD recruiting is not like real life recruiting.

I seriously can't dumb it down any more than this.

I’ll add to this. D2/D3 schools battling for top 100 recruits is unrealistic. However there are D3 schools in real life that shoot for D1 caliber players that may get overlooked or can’t meet the requirements. So D2/D3 teams snagging low caliber D1 guys is realistic.

You are describing how the game USED to work. Players could be projected as d1 but not get much attention from d1 teams so they would "drop down" To the lower division. But they would almost always choose the higher division team if the offer presented itself. Not impossible, but rare.

That’s interesting wonder why they removed that feature. But yeah if the bigger school came around D3 would lose immediately.

Left out of this description is the fact that in previous version, higher level D3 schools had access to drop downs that lower level schools (ie, new players) didn’t. This is a big part of the reasoning. And from a realism standpoint, the only thing less realistic than D3 schools offering scholarships in the first place is the existence of arbitrary “pools” of players, as if a recruit is a D1 recruit before signing with a team. A recruit from the D2 pool is a D1 player, if a D1 school wants him. A recruit from the D1 pool is a D3 player if no higher level teams want to invest enough effort to sign him.

To be clear, D3 teams battling and beating human coached D1 schools is not common. It is very rare. The only time it happens is when a D3 has invested *a lot* and the D1 school is basically trying to find a last minute backup, and doesn’t have money to do any visits to make up for the massive attention deficit in a cycle or two. Some folks will point to one or two “examples” of a D3 winning a recruit that a D1 school has matched or come close to matching visits. They might link to threads to prove it can happen. There is good reason to be skeptical. These are old threads, within a few months of 3.0’s rollout. There were a lot of bad actors spreading misinformation on purpose coming out of beta. And even if they weren’t outright lying about the situation, there were also reports of glitches, like visits done on the cycle the recruit signed not properly processing. Either way, D3 beating D1 for a recruit the D1 wants doesn’t happen, and anyone who has experienced D3 when a D1 comes in with any significant kind of effort knows this.

The core issue here is that there is a lingering population of coaches who want their backup options sitting around waiting for them, ready to jump when they decide they will offer a scholarship. They don’t want to siphon any attention off their main targets to fend off lower division schools for their backups. They want their all-in for their main targets, and free backups when they lose. In other words, having to prioritize in a competitive commodity game is too complicated.

Posted by GM223 on 8/28/2019 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 2:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by GM223 on 8/28/2019 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 1:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by franklynne on 8/28/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
"irrelevant to the conversation about D2/D3 battling D1s for recruits."??
why?? given that there are many D2-D3 teams in HD that have D1 quality players..why??

I'll back up.

In real life, d2 and d3 teams do not "battle" against d1 schools for recruits.

In real life, players do not choose to go to a d3 school when they have a full ride scholarship offer from a d1 school. Especially a B6 school.

In HD, these instances are common place and the norm.

Therefore, HD recruiting is not like real life recruiting.

I seriously can't dumb it down any more than this.

I’ll add to this. D2/D3 schools battling for top 100 recruits is unrealistic. However there are D3 schools in real life that shoot for D1 caliber players that may get overlooked or can’t meet the requirements. So D2/D3 teams snagging low caliber D1 guys is realistic.

You are describing how the game USED to work. Players could be projected as d1 but not get much attention from d1 teams so they would "drop down" To the lower division. But they would almost always choose the higher division team if the offer presented itself. Not impossible, but rare.

That’s interesting wonder why they removed that feature. But yeah if the bigger school came around D3 would lose immediately.

No clue why it was changed. I believe it was just an oversight by Seble personally.

But yeah, if you were D3 and tried sending a home visit to a d1 recruit, they would usually tell you to eff off and reject your visit. Seemed pretty realistic to me.

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by GM223 on 8/28/2019 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 2:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by GM223 on 8/28/2019 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 1:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by franklynne on 8/28/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
"irrelevant to the conversation about D2/D3 battling D1s for recruits."??
why?? given that there are many D2-D3 teams in HD that have D1 quality players..why??

I'll back up.

In real life, d2 and d3 teams do not "battle" against d1 schools for recruits.

In real life, players do not choose to go to a d3 school when they have a full ride scholarship offer from a d1 school. Especially a B6 school.

In HD, these instances are common place and the norm.

Therefore, HD recruiting is not like real life recruiting.

I seriously can't dumb it down any more than this.

I’ll add to this. D2/D3 schools battling for top 100 recruits is unrealistic. However there are D3 schools in real life that shoot for D1 caliber players that may get overlooked or can’t meet the requirements. So D2/D3 teams snagging low caliber D1 guys is realistic.

You are describing how the game USED to work. Players could be projected as d1 but not get much attention from d1 teams so they would "drop down" To the lower division. But they would almost always choose the higher division team if the offer presented itself. Not impossible, but rare.

That’s interesting wonder why they removed that feature. But yeah if the bigger school came around D3 would lose immediately.

No clue why it was changed. I believe it was just an oversight by Seble personally.

But yeah, if you were D3 and tried sending a home visit to a d1 recruit, they would usually tell you to eff off and reject your visit. Seemed pretty realistic to me.

There's a thread out there about the time when a D3 team beat A prestige Uconn in a dice roll. If you think that has any semblance of realism, you have donkey brains.

Bottom line - the game is less realistic than before. But maybe you find that more fun. Fun should trump realism for the most part. But don't **** on our legs and tell us it's raining Seble.

“I believe it was just an oversight by Seble personally.”

Holy ****, that’s a dumb answer. “LOL the developer just forgot”.

The actual answer is that there were no “pools” as such. Discovery didn’t exist, you started the recruiting process with accurate scouting reports, minus potential, on every guy in the country thinking about playing college hoops. Then you called guys up around where you figure your ceiling was, to see if they would accept effort from you, or possibly might in the future. You had to know what the responses all meant, to figure out if you’d be wasting money on scouting visits, or not. Doesn’t matter if Joe Ball has literally no other teams calling him, he’s not going to look at Carnegie Mellon. He’s a D1 player, dammit!

Then the scouting visits would do stupid things, like show you the rebounding potential of a point guard 7 out of 7 times, and never reveal his ball handling potential.

You know, realism.

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 3:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by GM223 on 8/28/2019 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 2:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by GM223 on 8/28/2019 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/28/2019 1:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by franklynne on 8/28/2019 1:43:00 PM (view original):
"irrelevant to the conversation about D2/D3 battling D1s for recruits."??
why?? given that there are many D2-D3 teams in HD that have D1 quality players..why??

I'll back up.

In real life, d2 and d3 teams do not "battle" against d1 schools for recruits.

In real life, players do not choose to go to a d3 school when they have a full ride scholarship offer from a d1 school. Especially a B6 school.

In HD, these instances are common place and the norm.

Therefore, HD recruiting is not like real life recruiting.

I seriously can't dumb it down any more than this.

I’ll add to this. D2/D3 schools battling for top 100 recruits is unrealistic. However there are D3 schools in real life that shoot for D1 caliber players that may get overlooked or can’t meet the requirements. So D2/D3 teams snagging low caliber D1 guys is realistic.

You are describing how the game USED to work. Players could be projected as d1 but not get much attention from d1 teams so they would "drop down" To the lower division. But they would almost always choose the higher division team if the offer presented itself. Not impossible, but rare.

That’s interesting wonder why they removed that feature. But yeah if the bigger school came around D3 would lose immediately.

No clue why it was changed. I believe it was just an oversight by Seble personally.

But yeah, if you were D3 and tried sending a home visit to a d1 recruit, they would usually tell you to eff off and reject your visit. Seemed pretty realistic to me.

There's a thread out there about the time when a D3 team beat A prestige Uconn in a dice roll. If you think that has any semblance of realism, you have donkey brains.

Bottom line - the game is less realistic than before. But maybe you find that more fun. Fun should trump realism for the most part. But don't **** on our legs and tell us it's raining Seble.

The game is fun there are still things I don't understand that is frustrating but that anything. I do like that you can take a mid major or a small D1 school and build them into a power.

Posted by shoe3 on 8/28/2019 3:34:00 PM (view original):
“I believe it was just an oversight by Seble personally.”

Holy ****, that’s a dumb answer. “LOL the developer just forgot”.

The actual answer is that there were no “pools” as such. Discovery didn’t exist, you started the recruiting process with accurate scouting reports, minus potential, on every guy in the country thinking about playing college hoops. Then you called guys up around where you figure your ceiling was, to see if they would accept effort from you, or possibly might in the future. You had to know what the responses all meant, to figure out if you’d be wasting money on scouting visits, or not. Doesn’t matter if Joe Ball has literally no other teams calling him, he’s not going to look at Carnegie Mellon. He’s a D1 player, dammit!

Then the scouting visits would do stupid things, like show you the rebounding potential of a point guard 7 out of 7 times, and never reveal his ball handling potential.

You know, realism.

Sounds like HD came a long way in recruiting but I do like the idea of a "drop down"

well the title only made me think of this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijAYN9zVnwg

yes I am old.

Posted by texrangers18 on 8/28/2019 8:50:00 PM (view original):
well the title only made me think of this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijAYN9zVnwg

yes I am old.

That video gives me a headache now. I'm old too.

i think the sim engine itself, the part that takes players / ratings, and settings / game plan, and mashes them together into an outcome - needs to be as realistic as possible. this wouldn't be fun if the game our fake players played didn't feel a hell of a lot like basketball.

that said, i think it is an unrealistic goal, and frankly a terrible one, to try to make the entire game realistic. IMO, the priority is to build a strategy game that is fun, relatively light, but also deep enough to allow deep dives and a substantial, long-term engagement.

in short, i think it is one thing to say hey, let's have good player make 70% of their shots and 50% of their 3s - that undermines the realism of the sim engine, which i think is essential to framing this game in an interesting, fun way. i think it is another to say, lets try to make practice plans as realistic as possible, which effectively would make them work where little fun could be found. or to say hey, in real life, the emotional connection between the recruiter and the recruit is paramount; let's add a dating-sim-esque component where you chit chat with the recruit, learn about their family, have to answer questions later about said family to show you care, etc - to build an overall 'relationship' with the player. that sounds more or less like the worst game ever.

anyway, maybe all those examples aren't the best, but i think there is a very natural place to draw the line - which is around the sim engine. what happens when 24 players and a bunch of settings are smashed together should pretty much match what people expect from basketball. how those 12 players get there is a totally different story. so, if you guys want to argue doing X or Y in recruiting makes it more fun, enhances the strategy, reduces the busy work, anything like that - i am pretty open to ideas. but pursuing realism in this regard, i just don't buy. i'm not saying making things realistic can't be a nice thing, sometimes, in the game engine space - but i am saying it should not be the priority. making a fun strategy game has got to be the priority.