Who cares about 1 point making a difference here! (No offense to dave). The overall point is being way overlooked by gil here. And i just don't understand how we're making a case for this as NOT being a glitch!

green starting stamina... 50, 51, 52, 53...
blue starting stamina.... 50, 51, 52, 53....
black starting stamina.... 50, 51, 52, 53....
orange starting stamina.... 50, 51, 52, (maybe caps here).
RED starting stamina... 50, 49, 48, 47....

red starting other ratings... 50, 50, 50, 50.

a blind man can see that it's a glitch. Who gets to decide what is "working as intended"? Not us. But it's blatantly obvious, that ONE color of ONE rating regresses. While every other color of every other rating improves, speaking vaguely. You can't tell me it's designed that way for a reason. That's ridiculous.

td: "...(No offense to dave)"
me: "I'm offended"

LOL

Posted by oldave on 10/1/2020 10:15:00 AM (view original):
td: "...(No offense to dave)"
me: "I'm offended"

LOL

Dave, have you put in a ticket about this guy? Curious what CS would have to say.

Love that they got back to me very quickly.
LOVE that the customer support person puts their actual name on the reply.
but, the answer was ultimately not very satisfying.
i think its basically what gil was saying but with fewer words! (just kiddin, gil)

Shannon Mague
1 day ago
Player development is based on a player's initial rating and their max possible rating, so improvement is extremely slow when those values are close together (i.e. low potential). If a player drops below that initial rating, improvement is still slow, even though there is now a larger amount of potential improvement.
Thanks for playing on WhatIfSports.

i think a follow up is in order - your player did not revert to their standard growth rate after dropping into black. however, the wording from CS does not even say that is the expectation - which as far as i know, should be? i think its worth asking them to clarify if improvement should have been the same at... 77 black or whatever your guy was, it would be if he started 77 black, and if so - if they can explain why he didn't grow when a 77 black starter would have.

i know it wasnt a reply from seble but seble's previous replies, to the best of my understanding (all expected stamina weirdness aside), would suggest your guy is not possible anymore. ALL players with red stamina, before he fixed it, did exactly what your guy did - specifically the 'glitch' was they never grew faster after dropping - and supposedly this was for ALL ratings, its just that only stamina drops meaningfully on a regular basis (nobody would notice if a 93 cap per guy dropped to 91-92 red and didn't get a half point growth back with some practice). if some guys are growing faster and some aren't, that just doesn't sound right.

I cant believe I dont know this, but do any other skills lose points in the offseason? I thought they did at times, but I'm not sure.
Just seems as though ST is the only issue.

I kinda get why ST might fall in offseason if we are replicating reality. but really the same can be true for other skills.
Seems like the answer is do away with offseason regression. but obviously i have no idea how difficult the coding is for a change like that and i guess its not that frequent of an issue. so i guess it will just stay broken and coaches will have to realize that its part of the deal when you recruit a red stam player

Posted by oldave on 10/1/2020 2:24:00 PM (view original):
I cant believe I dont know this, but do any other skills lose points in the offseason? I thought they did at times, but I'm not sure.
Just seems as though ST is the only issue.

I kinda get why ST might fall in offseason if we are replicating reality. but really the same can be true for other skills.
Seems like the answer is do away with offseason regression. but obviously i have no idea how difficult the coding is for a change like that and i guess its not that frequent of an issue. so i guess it will just stay broken and coaches will have to realize that its part of the deal when you recruit a red stam player

I've seen ATH fall.

yes, gil, it seems like the explanation i was given is the one you were given before that issue was fixed.

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 10/1/2020 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by oldave on 10/1/2020 2:24:00 PM (view original):
I cant believe I dont know this, but do any other skills lose points in the offseason? I thought they did at times, but I'm not sure.
Just seems as though ST is the only issue.

I kinda get why ST might fall in offseason if we are replicating reality. but really the same can be true for other skills.
Seems like the answer is do away with offseason regression. but obviously i have no idea how difficult the coding is for a change like that and i guess its not that frequent of an issue. so i guess it will just stay broken and coaches will have to realize that its part of the deal when you recruit a red stam player

I've seen ATH fall.

yes, other ratings can fall - but how often does that happen? the idea is like - say a guy is 90 cap, and hes 80 now - and he off season drops to 78. well now his growth rate is still the @ 80 growth rate. nobody is going to notice that - even a 90 drop to 88, as long as its not followed up the next season with another -2 and then another -2, probably will go unnoticed. a -2 in ath, def, per, bh, whatever - all of those are possible, but not super common. its possible with a really low WE guy, someone might go from say 90 on a 92 cap, to 85, and then not grow - and one could notice that. supposedly, that was happening pre-glitch fix, just not being noticed.

anyway its kinda only stamina where you can be sitting 10 lower than you started going... wtf is happening, why am i not at least growing some back? at least with any sort of frequency, you know? feels like you have to lose at least 4 or so before its even detectable, and unless its a red you should be gaining some back in the season, making it much harder to get to -4 overall. meanwhile sta drops a lot all the time, and not just for red (i posted one team's sta drop on like page 2, even the guys in black take a beating - its just you can grow out of it).

but yeah for sure your guy doesn't appear to be growing back AT ALL and that is exactly what isn't supposed to happen anymore... it definitely looks like your dudes growth rate did not reset

But it's not new that when stamina starts red, and drops as the seasons pass, that it doesn't grow back. This has been happening since I came back to HD.

and the issue is, the significant drop of course. Sure if a red ATH starts at 71 and ends at 70, big deal. That's normal with lots of players. But when all red ST players lose, what, 5 minimum? Normally more than 10. And they ALL do it, that's a significant glitch.

If there were some players that had red ST that lost 1 point or 2 points or 3 points over a career, I'd agree with you gil. But they all lose significant points.

Posted by topdogggbm on 10/1/2020 3:52:00 PM (view original):
But it's not new that when stamina starts red, and drops as the seasons pass, that it doesn't grow back. This has been happening since I came back to HD.

and the issue is, the significant drop of course. Sure if a red ATH starts at 71 and ends at 70, big deal. That's normal with lots of players. But when all red ST players lose, what, 5 minimum? Normally more than 10. And they ALL do it, that's a significant glitch.

If there were some players that had red ST that lost 1 point or 2 points or 3 points over a career, I'd agree with you gil. But they all lose significant points.

yeah, im losing faith that they actually fixed it. i had a red guy end yellow shortly after the fix and i took that as a significant improvement / evidence they fixed it. even sport's guy from earlier looks kosher to me, or close enough. but definitely not oldaves. i don't have a lot of red-sta guys myself, just so used to avoiding them like the plague - but the couple i've had looked ok to me. all lost points but it wasn't like so horrible. i am kinda surprised as i looked back, how many of my yellow starting guys ended in red. i feel like that did not used to happen. maybe things are better somewhere, somehow, but totally just as bad others. i don't know. im back to being a little confused - but i think oldave's guy is the one clear piece of evidence presented here that things are still broken.

here is my conversation with CS:



oldave
1 day ago
I have a player on my pbau Iba team
Orlando Morales
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=4507664

When he was recruited he was 85 stamina RED.
Over his 4 years, it has always fallen in the offseason, which i understand.
Early in his career, he never regained a single point during the season, since his ST was still red or orange at that point and his mpg was fairly low, i kinda understood that.

he entered his senior year at 74 black Stamina and has not regained a single point despite an average of 17 minutes conditioning and starting nearly every game and playing well over 20 minutes per game

Is this normal? we have dicsussed in hoops dynasty forum and gillespie and others seem to think this is not normal.

Thanks


Shannon Mague
1 day ago
Player development is based on a player's initial rating and their max possible rating, so improvement is extremely slow when those values are close together (i.e. low potential). If a player drops below that initial rating, improvement is still slow, even though there is now a larger amount of potential improvement.
Thanks for playing on WhatIfSports.


oldave
2 hours ago
Thanks for your quick reply, Shannon!

I'm still a bit confused on it though. others such as gillispie1 have commented in the forums that it used to work as you describe and that seble specifically made a change to somewhat rectify the issue.

ilet me see if i understand.
lets say he came in at 85 and his max is 86. then any improvement he can ever get is 1 point (and even getting that one point would take a whole career probably) regardless of how many points he loses due to lack of practice or offseason regression?

It just seems like they should be able to start gaining some points back once they fall into the black


Shannon Mague
41 minutes ago
Yes that is correct.
Thanks for playing on WhatIfSports.