Another hiring logic oddity Topic

bow2dacowz
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I'm pretty sure whatever tweaks were made did not change anything.

My last 10 seasons in Knight:

35: Texas Tyler D3       15-13       RPI 129        C Prestige                              
36: Texas Tyler D3       24-6         RPI 35          B Prestige     CT Champ  NT 1st Round
37: Texas Tyler D3       26-5         RPI 2           A+ Prestige     Conf Champ  NT Elite 8
38: Texas Tyler D3        21-11       RPI 20         A+ Prestige     Conf Champ  NT Final Four

39: Sac State D1          19-11        RPI 101        D+ Prestige     PI 1st Round
40: Sac State D1          23-8          RPI 53          C Prestige       PI 3rd Round
41: Sac State D1          26-6          RPI 51          C+ Prestige     Conf Champ PI 3rd Round
42: Sac State D1          27-3          RPI 44          C+ Prestige     Conf Champ CT Champ NT 1st Round
43: Sac State D1          20-11        RPI 82          C+ Prestige     CT Champ NT 1st Round
44: Sac State D1          26-5          RPI 37          B- Prestige      CT Champ NT 2nd Round

So to recap, in 10 seasons I've taken a C prestige D3 team to A+ in 3 years in the best D3 conference in all of WIS and a D+ Prestige D1 mid major team to B- in 6 seasons.  I've made the postseason 9 out of 10 seasons, including each of the last 9 consecutive.  My overall record in those 10 seasons is 227-79 (74%).  I've won 3 CT championships in a row. 

None of that is earth shattering by any means, but over a 10 year period it is very much above the average, especially with 6 seasons building a mid major program. 

Many of the jobs won't open for another hour yet, but as of right now, EVERY SINGLE D1 job is listed as a Step Backwards, except B prestige Baylor, and A prestige Vandy both of which are Not Qualified. 

Give me a break.  If someone going the mid major route can't be qualified for a decent non-rebuild Big 6 job after 10 solid seasons then something is FUBAR. 

Guess it's better to just have those jobs stay empty.
12/30/2011 12:58 AM
jdno
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just to be clear, you do know you can take a Step Backwards job, right?  Yes, you'll get a Loyalty hit (silly, I know), but you're a shoe-in for any of these jobs assuming another coach doesn't outrank you and apply for the same opening.
12/30/2011 1:12 AM
asher413
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in fact... step backward is actually saying you're over-qualified.
12/30/2011 1:13 AM
bow2dacowz
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i understand that...but i don't think i should have to take a garbage total rebuild job which is what anything else would be.  if someone better were to apply for one of those two good jobs, then that's fine, i can deal with that...but that i can't even be in the conversation with my resume bothers me...especially if those jobs stay SIM coached the way Florida and OK State did recently in Phelan.

12/30/2011 1:25 AM
tianyi7886
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VA Tech in ACC and Louisville in Big East are both open (both B-), and looks like you are qualified for them. Who cares if you take a loyalty hit when you take a huge leap in baseline prestige. 
12/30/2011 1:28 AM
bow2dacowz
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Aside from the fact that both of those teams are in the toilet, that isn't the point.  How can you have 10 decent seasons and not be qualified for a single job that has a current prestige higher than the program you are leaving? That just makes zero sense whatsoever. 

12/30/2011 1:31 AM
tianyi7886
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Because jobs are not simply about current prestige, baseline matters much more. There's a reason why you can't take UNC from SA State even if UNC goes 0-27 for 15 seasons and have B-  prestige. It has an A+ baseline and you can get to A+ with a few excellent seasons. 

I think it's fair that you get a team with the same current prestige but with a much better baseline, which allows you to jump into the A range for prestige, recruit better players and go for the A+/A baseline jobs. 

Plus, every B or better job in Knight has better baseline than your current team. It would be a little much for you to get a huge baseline jump by going into a BCS conf and get a prestige bump as well. 
12/30/2011 3:33 AM (edited)
fd343ny
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I dont think there is anything wrong inthe bow2dacowz situation.  There are BCS jobs open.  The record, while good, is not awesome.  At DI, we have three trips to the NT with 1st and second round exits.  No deep trip in NT.  Before that we have three PIT trips - which is nice but wont earn you much - and should not.  

if Va Tech and Louisville are available, that seems just right to me for these credentials.
12/30/2011 6:39 AM
girt25
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Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 1:26:00 AM (view original):

i understand that...but i don't think i should have to take a garbage total rebuild job which is what anything else would be.  if someone better were to apply for one of those two good jobs, then that's fine, i can deal with that...but that i can't even be in the conversation with my resume bothers me...especially if those jobs stay SIM coached the way Florida and OK State did recently in Phelan.

Wait, you are complaining about this? A couple strong D3 seasons and a solid low DI track record fora few more and you think you should be qualified for A and B-level BCS schools?

I really disagree. You wouldn't have ever been before, and you shouldn't be now. In fact, the notion that every other job is actually a step backwards might be an early indication that they may have actually made things too easy to move up. (Depending on exactly what else is out there.) And it's certainly an indication that seble addressed the issue from Rupp last time.

Sorry, but I just think that you're totally off base here.
12/30/2011 7:05 AM (edited)
girt25
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Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 1:31:00 AM (view original):
Aside from the fact that both of those teams are in the toilet, that isn't the point.  How can you have 10 decent seasons and not be qualified for a single job that has a current prestige higher than the program you are leaving? That just makes zero sense whatsoever. 

The jobs process and is not about your team's current prestige.

And it sounds like there are only two openings higher than what you have right now, so that's hardly indicative of a problem.
12/30/2011 6:50 AM
bow2dacowz
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girt and fd i was qualified for louisville and those other similar jobs after last season.  coming off my best season of the bunch AND the lower standards and i'm qualified for the same exact jobs..so from where i'm sitting, nothing changed.

like i said, just because i'm qualified wouldn't necessarily mean i'd get the job...if there were more deserving people that put in resumes, i'd be more than ok with that.  but if nobody throws their hat in the ring are those jobs really better being run by simAI than someone who has spent nearly 20 seasons in the world and has had decent success?  i have a hard time believing that they are.  my resume should at least have earned me the right to apply, IMO.
12/30/2011 9:04 AM
mamxet
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that would be an approach to the hiring process - emphasizing that it is better to have a good human than a SIM.  but that has not been the way HD has worked.  Not clear whether such rapid advancement would be good for the game, but it could be a good idea.
12/30/2011 10:50 AM
stinenavy
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I think the argument that you should have a chance at B Baylor or A Vanderbilt, because it's better than having a SIM AI is a poor one.

You've won a whopping one NT game. I just don't see how that should make you able to take over a top flight school, or the consistent postseason team in Baylor.
12/30/2011 11:50 AM
acn24
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Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 9:04:00 AM (view original):
girt and fd i was qualified for louisville and those other similar jobs after last season.  coming off my best season of the bunch AND the lower standards and i'm qualified for the same exact jobs..so from where i'm sitting, nothing changed.

like i said, just because i'm qualified wouldn't necessarily mean i'd get the job...if there were more deserving people that put in resumes, i'd be more than ok with that.  but if nobody throws their hat in the ring are those jobs really better being run by simAI than someone who has spent nearly 20 seasons in the world and has had decent success?  i have a hard time believing that they are.  my resume should at least have earned me the right to apply, IMO.
Just because you don't see the effects of the change doesn't mean nothing has changed.

Regarding your last point, you absolutely have the right to apply, nothing is stopping you.  And nothing is stopping B and better prestige BCS schools from wanting coaches who have shown either that they can consistently win 1-2 games in the NT or who are coming off a very deep run.
12/30/2011 12:16 PM
girt25
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Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 9:04:00 AM (view original):
girt and fd i was qualified for louisville and those other similar jobs after last season.  coming off my best season of the bunch AND the lower standards and i'm qualified for the same exact jobs..so from where i'm sitting, nothing changed.

like i said, just because i'm qualified wouldn't necessarily mean i'd get the job...if there were more deserving people that put in resumes, i'd be more than ok with that.  but if nobody throws their hat in the ring are those jobs really better being run by simAI than someone who has spent nearly 20 seasons in the world and has had decent success?  i have a hard time believing that they are.  my resume should at least have earned me the right to apply, IMO.
bow, the simple fact that you added one more solid season and are not qualified for A- or B-level BCS jobs is simply not indicative of a problem.

You simply don't have the level of success or experience just yet to be qualied for that level of jobs.

I understand your general feeling that it's better to have a human than a sim, and on its face, that's true. But you can't simply apply that unilaterally -- if you did, then the simple fact that a school was a sim would trump the minimum entry/hiring requirements and the coaches' resume, and that simply isn't logical (let alone, as someone mentioned, how HD has ever worked or appraoched this).
12/30/2011 12:38 PM
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