Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 3/05/2010

Quote: Originally posted by furry_nipps on 3/05/2010 Bad example, A. First year coaches who don't recruit sim ai will sign all but 2 walk ons so its like sim ai is still running them anyways. Game planning doesn't mean much, as long as the last coach has something set up that isn't stupid you won't completely ruin them.



Your example above is a guy who has been there for multiple seasons and the sim WILL NOT recruit for him anymore. It is a hell of a lot easier to damage a team when you can have more then 2 walk ons.

Its still an example of a ghost team. There are differences in abandoned teams; Although arguably its true that the WORST ghost teams are actually more of a risk with an 'introductory five pack" than with a one-off freehd.

Just pointing out that there IS a difference between a SIMAI and a ghost - not that big for one season, true.

But go over one season and the difference becomes glaring.

Quote: Originally posted by glen87 on 3/04/2010hopefully it will just be during the NCAA tournament which wouldn't affect too much

Quote: Originally posted by seble on 3/04/2010To clear up the record on a few items:

- Retention rate (users who purchased at least one season after the free season) for last year's promotion on FoxSports.com (which is what this new promo is for) was 17%.

- Retention rate from FREEHD users was 32%.

- New users in their first season who used a promo code and did not yet purchase another season CANNOT use FSS.

Quote: Originally Posted By doomey on 3/05/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 3/05/2010

Quote: Originally posted by furry_nipps on 3/05/2010
Bad example, A. First year coaches who don't recruit sim ai will sign all but 2 walk ons so its like sim ai is still running them anyways. Game planning doesn't mean much, as long as the last coach has something set up that isn't stupid you won't completely ruin them.



Your example above is a guy who has been there for multiple seasons and the sim WILL NOT recruit for him anymore. It is a hell of a lot easier to damage a team when you can have more then 2 walk ons.

Its still an example of a ghost team. There are differences in abandoned teams; Although arguably its true that the WORST ghost teams are actually more of a risk with an 'introductory five pack" than with a one-off freehd.

Just pointing out that there IS a difference between a SIMAI and a ghost - not that big for one season, true.

But go over one season and the difference becomes glaring.

z's issue was that one free season of HD was going to create them though, that won't be the case. As furry pointed out, the worst they will do is have 2 walkons, something even a vet could do if they overexended. It certainly isn't the dilemma he is making it out to be

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 3/05/2010I am not worried about being right or wrong myself as so many of you others are. I am only worried about the future of HD, which imo at this point doesn't look so good. FreeHD in and of itself is not the answer. I hope it all works out I am done having ideas geared soley towards the betterment of the game we all enjoy so much fall on deaf ears. I had a lot of faith in seble but I don't know if it was well placed (and this goes beyond the single issue in this thread, mind you) but as things move along he seems to be getting clsoer and closer to the tk mold of "This is what I want for the game so that is what it will be" and that isn't going to make HD last

Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 3/04/2010

Quote: Originally posted by seble on 3/04/2010To clear up the record on a few items:
- Retention rate (users who purchased at least one season after the free season) for last year's promotion on FoxSports.com (which is what this new promo is for) was 17%.

- Retention rate from FREEHD users was 32%.

- New users in their first season who used a promo code and did not yet purchase another season CANNOT use FSS.

If you aren't going to allow them to use FSS then you might as well scrap the whole thing. New coaches would be missing the biggest factor in the game today.

Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 3/05/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 3/05/2010
I am not worried about being right or wrong myself as so many of you others are. I am only worried about the future of HD, which imo at this point doesn't look so good. FreeHD in and of itself is not the answer. I hope it all works out I am done having ideas geared soley towards the betterment of the game we all enjoy so much fall on deaf ears. I had a lot of faith in seble but I don't know if it was well placed (and this goes beyond the single issue in this thread, mind you) but as things move along he seems to be getting clsoer and closer to the tk mold of "This is what I want for the game so that is what it will be" and that isn't going to make HD last.

Seble has done a great job communicating with the users which is more than can ever have been said for TK. The fact he doesn't simply yield to every suggestion you, dalter and OR might have doesn't mean he isnt doing what he thinks is in the games best interest. In this instance you seem to have sour grapes. Just look at all the people that have state in this thread alone that they've joined HD because of FreeHD and the numbers Seble provided. Plainly, its a great idea. Specifically when you mix in the fact that hes eliminated the ability to use FSS and cut off the cheaters/ghost ships. I believe it hurts new users just as much as it helps old ones by taking FSS out of it. I understand very well both sides of it and have rest my case since there is nothing more I can say about it.

Secondly, many of the changes hes made are as a result of listening to the users and implementing many of their suggestions. I don't mean to call you guys out, but some of the hissy fits Ive seen thrown over not being listened to are a joke and not the way to go about having things changed. I think the vast majority of people (while they'd like to see things improved) are generally happy with the game and just making changes for the sake of change is silly and irresponsible. mmt this isn't personal to me. I am taking every personal feeling i have out of the thought process it is 100% general feeling on everything. If you don't agree, fine that is great I don't think for you nor would I want to it is just how I feel about it.

Quote: Originally Posted By hackerhog on 3/05/2010

Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 3/04/2010

Quote: Originally posted by seble on 3/04/2010To clear up the record on a few items:
- Retention rate (users who purchased at least one season after the free season) for last year's promotion on FoxSports.com (which is what this new promo is for) was 17%.

- Retention rate from FREEHD users was 32%.

- New users in their first season who used a promo code and did not yet purchase another season CANNOT use FSS.

If you aren't going to allow them to use FSS then you might as well scrap the whole thing. New coaches would be missing the biggest factor in the game today.

I used it the 1st year it came out and haven't used it since. I play D2 and it's too expensive to use in D2 or D3. I think I'm doing quite well without it


Not to get too much off topic, but this statement is just not correct. I just used FSS on a D3 team that I picked up, and I use FSS for both of my D2 teams EVERY season. One of those D2 teams I use FSS for scouts Texas and the other one scouts New York (and we all know how expensive those two states are).

It can be used in D2 and used effectively if you are judicious about which states (and how many) you scout. I just hate seeing info like this posted because if a new coach were to run across this and take it as gospel, he'd be making a decision that could seriously damage the future of his team. Maybe you've been fortunate to recruit players blindly with high upsides in enough categories, Hacker, but personally, I like to know what I'm getting before he shows up to campus.

And since I'm on my soapbox right now, another misconception is that it's too expensive to recruit International players at the D2 level. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I hope all the D2 coaches believe that it's too expensive because I end up with International players who turn out to be gems, season after season after season. The only downside to recruiting International players (and this WILL directly contradict my statement above, I know) is that by the time you do enough evals to finds out his potential (if you choose to go this route), your kind of cost committed to going ahead and recruiting the player. I'm usually good with that though, because I have a theory about the International players which I may share at a later date.

Climbing down off soapbox. Back to regularly scheduled arguing........

Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 3/05/2010
Well, I dont know what more you'd (And Im not targeting you, we just happen to be the two having this conversation) want? Lets take a look at things:

1) We wanted more communication, we've received it; Agreed.

2) We didnt want the new product rushed out, it hasnt been; So far.

3) We wanted changes to player creation and development, thats what were getting; But are they the right ones? I would love diversified player creation (check so far) but development is a tricky thing to accomplish with the huge limitations that FSS forces on HD. And before you say i don't like FSS, i think it is great for the game, but this has less to do with my specific ideas and more to do with the general thought of "coaches need to have the ability to mold players" Not 100% like before, no likely not but also players need to grow. The thing is so far seble has been 100% set on the fact of drasitcally "stunting player growth" and I don't think limiting player growth more then it already is is good for the game and i think we can all agree there is some happy medium that can be found and so far it hasn't been. I'll get off that subject now, interested to hear your response tho.

4) We wanted them to admit when theyve been wrong, they have (although I still dont personally agree with the scholarship $$$ thing). Maybe, maybe not. One thing when they quick went back on it does't show me this one way or another. I haven't seen much of a difference other then seble saying "we will look at EE's" but he didn't say they were wrong just that they needed a look.

Outside of literally taking a word for word suggestion that is made and implementing each one, I don't know what else you want. I would be disgusted as a customer, if suddenly changes to a game I pay money for and like, were made because certain users post more than others. Thats not a way to conduct a business or service the majority of your customers. Maybe it is just i am tired of the "thanks for the comment" response tk use to always give? Who knows. I have had many back and forths with seble as have others and for every long post trying to explain things to him from a different point of view its basically "I don't agree, this is more real life" and that isn't going to save HD. It is hard to judge a lot since there are such a few people actually contributing to the beta test and again i don't want to come off as "i know it all about hd" , i don't. but at the very least i think seble should listen to those that play the game more then what looks mroe like real life.

Quote: Originally Posted By hackerhog on 3/05/2010
Since you hijacked, I'll respond and lets just leave it at that.

There are alternative ways to get the information in FSS by spending less No, there really aren't and in the process accumulating recruiting effort towards that player. And the best part is you're not limited to the 3 or whatever states you scouted. I've mentored other coaches to do the same. Trust me. In HD, there are more than 1 ways to skin a cat, much the reason I like the game.

Next time, check my dynasty before spewing drivel. I rock