Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 6/09/2010

Quote: Originally posted by sully712 on 6/09/2010 I said, that he had hundreds of volunteers to test the product and give feedback (what we are doing now ironically).

Yeah, that's not dedicated testing.

If seble had shot you an email and told you to spend the next six hours checking every combination of menu settings on the Team Game Plan page -- every offense in combination with every tempo in combination with every defense, every possible +/- setting, every possible 'start fouling when' setting, etc etc, would you have done it

Quote: Originally Posted By shagnew13 on 6/09/2010

I mean Apple doesn't roll out products that have bugs like this, Video Games don't roll out like this with bugs like this, they have a dedicated group of testers, and developers who fix, and tweak the game and software to where they want it, before it is rolled out, and if they don't fix them, they delay the launch.

Quote: Originally posted by shagnew13 on 6/09/2010I mean Apple doesn't roll out products that have bugs like this, Video Games don't roll out like this with bugs like this, they have a dedicated group of testers, and developers who fix, and tweak the game and software to where they want it, before it is rolled out, and if they don't fix them, they delay the launch.

They delay a launch if there are fatal errors, yeah. That's not even close to what they are dealing with.

Where do you think the term 'nerf' comes from, anyway? An MMORPG launches, one particular weapon or character type or whatnot is revealed to be too powerful over the course of game play, and that element of the game then gets reduced in power/effectiveness.

By your logic, 'nerfing' should never happen. The launch should just be delayed until everything is perfectly in balance.

They issue patches because of hackers, and what not that find flaws in the game on purpose.

You're thinking of security upgrades for Windows. There are other kinds of patches too. Again, MMORPGs usually have a ton of patches after launch, to deal with exactly the kinds of issues HD is currently dealing with.

I mean to say the engine is at 95% complete is not really true, because he has had 2 major updates in what 2 weeks, and he has now posted a thread to ask for his customers help in identifying the problems they are seeing.

Yes, I knew all that when I made my 95% estimate.

If he didn't have the resources to develop the product to where he wants it, then he should have delayed it, or did more beta testing before releasing the engine the way it was.

See above. The new engine would likely never have been released at all, based on the standards you're asking for.

Yes he may be able to tweak it here and there to where he wants it, but this season is pretty much lost for all customers on the new engine, because they are trying to find out the bugs, and problems with this new engine, which they are actually paying for.

See, and this is where I think the hyperbole goes off the deep end. "Lost season?" Only in the sense that it's a little harder to draw lessons from how the new engine is going to work because of the extra noise in the signal. But anyone who wins a title is still going to have earned it. No one's glitching their way to a championship.

And, seriously, no one is "trying to find out the bugs". I once spent a nine-hour day repetitively inputting values into financial software to pin down a rounding issue, and then two more days explaining to the developers why using a mathematical rounding protocol (which alternated between rounding up to the nearest penny and rounding down) instead of a financial rounding protocol (which would have consistently rounded the penny up) was a terrible idea. That's trying to find a bug. What coaches are doing right now -- seeing results they don't think are kosher as they play to win, and then reporting them -- isn't in the same ballpark.

Point me to a coach who is deliberately using a suboptimal gameplan in an effort to see how a specific part of the engine is now operating, and then I'll listen to how coaches are "trying to find out the bugs".

Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 6/09/2010

Quote: Originally posted by shagnew13 on 6/09/2010I mean Apple doesn't roll out products that have bugs like this, Video Games don't roll out like this with bugs like this, they have a dedicated group of testers, and developers who fix, and tweak the game and software to where they want it, before it is rolled out, and if they don't fix them, they delay the launch.

They delay a launch if there are fatal errors, yeah. That's not even close to what they are dealing with.

Where do you think the term 'nerf' comes from, anyway? An MMORPG launches, one particular weapon or character type or whatnot is revealed to be too powerful over the course of game play, and that element of the game then gets reduced in power/effectiveness.

By your logic, 'nerfing' should never happen. The launch should just be delayed until everything is perfectly in balance.

They issue patches because of hackers, and what not that find flaws in the game on purpose.

You're thinking of security upgrades for Windows. There are other kinds of patches too. Again, MMORPGs usually have a ton of patches after launch, to deal with exactly the kinds of issues HD is currently dealing with.

I mean to say the engine is at 95% complete is not really true, because he has had 2 major updates in what 2 weeks, and he has now posted a thread to ask for his customers help in identifying the problems they are seeing.

Yes, I knew all that when I made my 95% estimate.

If he didn't have the resources to develop the product to where he wants it, then he should have delayed it, or did more beta testing before releasing the engine the way it was.

See above. The new engine would likely never have been released at all, based on the standards you're asking for.

Yes he may be able to tweak it here and there to where he wants it, but this season is pretty much lost for all customers on the new engine, because they are trying to find out the bugs, and problems with this new engine, which they are actually paying for.

See, and this is where I think the hyperbole goes off the deep end. "Lost season?" Only in the sense that it's a little harder to draw lessons from how the new engine is going to work because of the extra noise in the signal. But anyone who wins a title is still going to have earned it. No one's glitching their way to a championship.

And, seriously, no one is "trying to find out the bugs". I once spent a nine-hour day repetitively inputting values into financial software to pin down a rounding issue, and then two more days explaining to the developers why using a mathematical rounding protocol (which alternated between rounding up to the nearest penny and rounding down) instead of a financial rounding protocol (which would have consistently rounded the penny up) was a terrible idea. That's trying to find a bug. What coaches are doing right now -- seeing results they don't think are kosher as they play to win, and then reporting them -- isn't in the same ballpark.

Point me to a coach who is deliberately using a suboptimal gameplan in an effort to see how a specific part of the engine is now operating, and then I'll listen to how coaches are "trying to find out the bugs".

So what your essentially saying is blah, blah, blah...

Am I correct???

Quote: Originally posted by mmt0315 on 6/09/2010Don't you see how this comes across though. Youre taking the attitude of if we dont know what the results might be there is no sense of even trying.