I invite folks to compare this last story with the report that began this thread

I guess my question would be, how does that last four year stretch in D3 allow one to bypass D2 and move directly to D1?  Final Four, Elite Eight, 1st Round is nice, but nothing extraordinary and certainly wouldn't seem to be enough to warrant a move straight to D1, even if it was to a very low-end school.  Am I overthinking this?

Posted by mamxet on 12/30/2011 12:47:00 PM (view original):
I invite folks to compare this last story with the report that began this thread

I think that you have a much bigger gripe Mamxet.  In fact, in my opinion, your example shows the possibility that the system is not working properly, not Bow's. 

emy, the jobs process was broken when mamxet made his original post, that much has been confirmed.

Posted by stinenavy on 12/30/2011 11:50:00 AM (view original):
I think the argument that you should have a chance at B Baylor or A Vanderbilt, because it's better than having a SIM AI is a poor one.

You've won a whopping one NT game. I just don't see how that should make you able to take over a top flight school, or the consistent postseason team in Baylor.

I appreciate the sarcasm about my 1 tournament win.  I must have missed all those mid majors that win multiple NT games every year.  Like when you had E. Washington and won 0 NT games in your 3 trips to the NT before taking over B- baseline Notre Dame. This after taking a 27 season break after a couple of uninspiring D2 seasons and moving directly to D1 But I shouldn't be able to take over B- baseline Baylor because i've won a "whopping" 1 NT game....

Why?  Because ND was a C prestige when you took over? Everyone else here is saying that prestige doesn't really matter, it's just the baseline matters.  So tell me why you are any more qualified to be where you are? 

Posted by mamxet on 12/30/2011 10:50:00 AM (view original):
that would be an approach to the hiring process - emphasizing that it is better to have a good human than a SIM.  but that has not been the way HD has worked.  Not clear whether such rapid advancement would be good for the game, but it could be a good idea.

i dont think it would necessarily be bad, at least not at the D1 level.  yeah, more people might have the ability to apply for a better job, but that just means it's going to be less likely that you get it...but at least theres a chance.  might get more people advancing rapidly to the lower levels of D1 at the expense of D2 or D3 but  don't know that that is so bad either.  D2 and D3 still have a good core group of coaches that would stick around and typically dominate those levels anyway. 

i get that a lot of the people in those good jobs now are against it because they feel like it's a feather in their cap to be where they are, but as i said, the reality is that it would still be a big accomplishment to get one of those jobs because the pool of applicants is just going to be bigger and deeper and anyone who has had success at those B or B- baseline schools that applies for a bigger job is going to have a huge leg up on the mid major folks.  once in a rare while someone might luck into a job, but hey, welcome to the real world of sports, entertainment, business, and pretty much every other field.  the game as a whole improves because more people have a chance...and the knowledge that they can go to D1 and have a chance to get a decent job without dumping 15 or 20 seasons down the drain at a mid major where they won't win but a fraction of the free credits they could likely get if theyd just stayed at D2 or D3

Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 9:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stinenavy on 12/30/2011 11:50:00 AM (view original):
I think the argument that you should have a chance at B Baylor or A Vanderbilt, because it's better than having a SIM AI is a poor one.

You've won a whopping one NT game. I just don't see how that should make you able to take over a top flight school, or the consistent postseason team in Baylor.

I appreciate the sarcasm about my 1 tournament win.  I must have missed all those mid majors that win multiple NT games every year.  Like when you had E. Washington and won 0 NT games in your 3 trips to the NT before taking over B- baseline Notre Dame. This after taking a 27 season break after a couple of uninspiring D2 seasons and moving directly to D1 But I shouldn't be able to take over B- baseline Baylor because i've won a "whopping" 1 NT game....

Why?  Because ND was a C prestige when you took over? Everyone else here is saying that prestige doesn't really matter, it's just the baseline matters.  So tell me why you are any more qualified to be where you are? 

bow, there are a lot of things that you don't seem to be getting here.

Mostly, no one is saying that prestige doesn't matter. What was said is that the prestige of your current team doesn't matter. (It's resume, not prestige, very different.) The prestige of the team that you're trying to take over most certainly does. So yeah, if the teams you wanted had a C prestige like the team he took over, you'd be able to get the job. There's a significant difference.

You have a lot of very experienced coaches (who, mind you, have no problem leveling criticism at WIS) all telling you that you're off base on this one.

Personally I don't think that resume... from the Big Sky conference should land any job in a Big6 conference.
The only problem I find here is that it's qualified for Louisville. Not that it's not qualified for Baylor and dang sure not A prestige Vandy.
Just IMHO of course.

Posted by girt25 on 12/30/2011 10:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 9:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stinenavy on 12/30/2011 11:50:00 AM (view original):
I think the argument that you should have a chance at B Baylor or A Vanderbilt, because it's better than having a SIM AI is a poor one.

You've won a whopping one NT game. I just don't see how that should make you able to take over a top flight school, or the consistent postseason team in Baylor.

I appreciate the sarcasm about my 1 tournament win.  I must have missed all those mid majors that win multiple NT games every year.  Like when you had E. Washington and won 0 NT games in your 3 trips to the NT before taking over B- baseline Notre Dame. This after taking a 27 season break after a couple of uninspiring D2 seasons and moving directly to D1 But I shouldn't be able to take over B- baseline Baylor because i've won a "whopping" 1 NT game....

Why?  Because ND was a C prestige when you took over? Everyone else here is saying that prestige doesn't really matter, it's just the baseline matters.  So tell me why you are any more qualified to be where you are? 

bow, there are a lot of things that you don't seem to be getting here.

Mostly, no one is saying that prestige doesn't matter. What was said is that the prestige of your current team doesn't matter. (It's resume, not prestige, very different.) The prestige of the team that you're trying to take over most certainly does. So yeah, if the teams you wanted had a C prestige like the team he took over, you'd be able to get the job. There's a significant difference.

You have a lot of very experienced coaches (who, mind you, have no problem leveling criticism at WIS) all telling you that you're off base on this one.

off base?  this isn't a factual argument, it's opinion....so i don't think i can be "off base". 

i'm still allowed an opinion, even if it's not agreed upon by a lot of "very experienced coaches" am I not?  or have we gotten to a point where we have to seek the approval of others before we are allowed to think or speak?  you and others don't agree with me.  that's fine.  life goes on.  i'll survive.  it won't be the last time we disagree, but that's pretty arrogant to tell me that my opinion is off base just because it's not held by everyone...or even anyone. it's still my opinion.

Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 9:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stinenavy on 12/30/2011 11:50:00 AM (view original):
I think the argument that you should have a chance at B Baylor or A Vanderbilt, because it's better than having a SIM AI is a poor one.

You've won a whopping one NT game. I just don't see how that should make you able to take over a top flight school, or the consistent postseason team in Baylor.

I appreciate the sarcasm about my 1 tournament win.  I must have missed all those mid majors that win multiple NT games every year.  Like when you had E. Washington and won 0 NT games in your 3 trips to the NT before taking over B- baseline Notre Dame. This after taking a 27 season break after a couple of uninspiring D2 seasons and moving directly to D1 But I shouldn't be able to take over B- baseline Baylor because i've won a "whopping" 1 NT game....

Why?  Because ND was a C prestige when you took over? Everyone else here is saying that prestige doesn't really matter, it's just the baseline matters.  So tell me why you are any more qualified to be where you are? 

You won 1 NT game. You griping because you believe you should move to a team with a currently higher prestige is absurd. I brought E. Washington to a C+ and then went to a C Notre Dame and saw my loyalty plummet to a D+ IIRC, because it was a step down.

My apologies for taking 27 seasons off, damn deployment got in the way. No idea how you somehow think that only baseline matters.

I think your gripe about not qualifying for baylor is unjustified, because you want two things:
1) a team with a much higher baseline (b-)
2) a team with a higher current prestige (b)

I think you should qualify for one or the other with your resume, not both. You can go to a team from big sky or any other minor conf with the same or worse baseline, but higher current prestige. Or you can go to a team with a better baseline (BCS conf) but with the same or worse current prestige. Option 2, of better baseline, same prestige is open to you. Option one is currently unavailable because no such team exists in knight. 

Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 9:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mamxet on 12/30/2011 10:50:00 AM (view original):
that would be an approach to the hiring process - emphasizing that it is better to have a good human than a SIM.  but that has not been the way HD has worked.  Not clear whether such rapid advancement would be good for the game, but it could be a good idea.

i dont think it would necessarily be bad, at least not at the D1 level.  yeah, more people might have the ability to apply for a better job, but that just means it's going to be less likely that you get it...but at least theres a chance.  might get more people advancing rapidly to the lower levels of D1 at the expense of D2 or D3 but  don't know that that is so bad either.  D2 and D3 still have a good core group of coaches that would stick around and typically dominate those levels anyway. 

i get that a lot of the people in those good jobs now are against it because they feel like it's a feather in their cap to be where they are, but as i said, the reality is that it would still be a big accomplishment to get one of those jobs because the pool of applicants is just going to be bigger and deeper and anyone who has had success at those B or B- baseline schools that applies for a bigger job is going to have a huge leg up on the mid major folks.  once in a rare while someone might luck into a job, but hey, welcome to the real world of sports, entertainment, business, and pretty much every other field.  the game as a whole improves because more people have a chance...and the knowledge that they can go to D1 and have a chance to get a decent job without dumping 15 or 20 seasons down the drain at a mid major where they won't win but a fraction of the free credits they could likely get if theyd just stayed at D2 or D3

"i get that a lot of the people in those good jobs now are against it because they feel like it's a feather in their cap"

you are off base with that - and by the way, when I say off base I dont mean that you are not allowed to think it - just that I think you are wrong.

folks are saying that your view of hiring logic is not consistent with the way HD has long handled job search

and

folks are saying that your view of hiring logic would not be good for the game 

I think the hiring logic needs improvement and I think most folks who play this game also think so - but in my opinion what you urge goes too far - and you are off base when you say that that view reflects ego or feathers in one's cap

Posted by bow2dacowz on 12/30/2011 12:58:00 AM (view original):
I'm pretty sure whatever tweaks were made did not change anything.

My last 10 seasons in Knight:

35: Texas Tyler D3       15-13       RPI 129        C Prestige                              
36: Texas Tyler D3       24-6         RPI 35          B Prestige     CT Champ  NT 1st Round
37: Texas Tyler D3       26-5         RPI 2           A+ Prestige     Conf Champ  NT Elite 8
38: Texas Tyler D3        21-11       RPI 20         A+ Prestige     Conf Champ  NT Final Four

39: Sac State D1          19-11        RPI 101        D+ Prestige     PI 1st Round
40: Sac State D1          23-8          RPI 53          C Prestige       PI 3rd Round
41: Sac State D1          26-6          RPI 51          C+ Prestige     Conf Champ PI 3rd Round
42: Sac State D1          27-3          RPI 44          C+ Prestige     Conf Champ CT Champ NT 1st Round
43: Sac State D1          20-11        RPI 82          C+ Prestige     CT Champ NT 1st Round
44: Sac State D1          26-5          RPI 37          B- Prestige      CT Champ NT 2nd Round

So to recap, in 10 seasons I've taken a C prestige D3 team to A+ in 3 years in the best D3 conference in all of WIS and a D+ Prestige D1 mid major team to B- in 6 seasons.  I've made the postseason 9 out of 10 seasons, including each of the last 9 consecutive.  My overall record in those 10 seasons is 227-79 (74%).  I've won 3 CT championships in a row. 

None of that is earth shattering by any means, but over a 10 year period it is very much above the average, especially with 6 seasons building a mid major program. 

Many of the jobs won't open for another hour yet, but as of right now, EVERY SINGLE D1 job is listed as a Step Backwards, except B prestige Baylor, and A prestige Vandy both of which are Not Qualified. 

Give me a break.  If someone going the mid major route can't be qualified for a decent non-rebuild Big 6 job after 10 solid seasons then something is FUBAR. 

Guess it's better to just have those jobs stay empty.

I think you're first sentence was proven wrong by the fact that you got the Missouri job.  It may not have been the one you wanted, it may not have been the best fit, it may be a tough rebuild, but I think we can all agree that under the logic before he made the fix, you would not have been eligible for it, so whether or not the changes went as far as you would have liked, I think this is proof the tweaks did change the process for the better.

So are you saying other people aren't allowed to have an opinion about your opinion?