Mister Poe! how's it going, buddy?

your point, i think, hits at the heart of the matter:

is the selection committee charged with trying to find the best 37 (or whatever the number is) at large teams?

or are they trying to find the 37 "most deserving" at large teams?

when i think of "best team" i try to put myself in the role of vegas oddsmaker and try to determine which team is stronger and would be favored if two schools met on a neutral court.

but, as my ol buddy , emmty, would point out, the only way to arrive at that answer is to make some assumptions... and those assumptions will most times seem to favor the power conference schools, and would seem to unfairly omit mid-majors who havent had as many chances to prove themselves versus good teams.

i actually feel that the committee should look for the "most deserving" schools. To go back to the earlier argument... i thnk my syracuse tark team was probably among the 37 "best" at large teams, but was not among the 37 most deserving.

that probably makes zero sense, but then again... consider the source.

well said. i guess we can all stop arguing. because you either belong to one club or the other...

i personally believe it should be the "best team" to make the tourney, not the "most deserving".

so you either subscribe to one school of thought or the other. arguing the topic is pointless.

now i know its only one game. but the 17-win "deserving team" LOST to the 9-win "better team".

you like how i said "we can all stop arguing" then just continued to do so? sometimes i cant even stand myself

hey, if it werent for pointless arguing, i think these forums would be an awfully quiet place

Quote: Originally Posted By mrpolo09 on 5/13/2010now i know its only one game. but the 17-win "deserving team" LOST to the 9-win "better team".

you like how i said "we can all stop arguing" then just continued to do so? sometimes i cant even stand mysel

Fair enough and we all know that team talent goes a long way in this game, but if your talent doesn't equate to Ws, then what are you really worth?

I congratulate guys for being in tough conferences or scheduling tough non-cons, but if you don't win those games, you shouldn't be simply rewarded for playing a tough schedule, which is how the RPI works basically. I just resent the fact that who you played trumps the W/L of the game. I may be in the minority but let's face it, you play to win the games, you don't play to play, you play to WIN.

winning matters yes very much so.....Talent matters very much so......i beat th eimperfect system (not trying to) I have not seen a 9 win team ever make the post season...I thought I had better talent coming in to the season...i schedule hard because theres no way you can win our conference tourney if your not Isustud or billyg....so i cant go thru a conference tourney and have a easier time than you do colonels....I could have schedule 9 sims and beat them all....ANYONE can...infact im going to that next season....to get to my 17-22 wins and probably get to the tourney...I play in the probably toughest conference ever but when i did schedule cup cakes i ended up in th pit a few times with a 50 rpi....Im a good d2 school but i play in a conference where 2-3 of the schools can compete in the lower levels of d1....coaching is alot and i can game plan with any of them....I just cant get to the point where i can compete for the type of recruits that some of my conference mates get...it runs in 3-4 year cycles for me for being a team that can compete.....with the talent i had i should have made a top 75 sos but i made a top 5....its one season and one extreme...I personally think you on this crusade to sell the BPI system you have came up with.....your barking up the wrong tree....oh and schedule better

I look forward to facing you in the seasons to come, maybe an exhib next year, but you'll certainly be getting a non-con game invite from me very soon. As far as me plugging BPI, I disagree, I've already conceded the fact that WIS will NEVER use it, however I would still like to be able to see what it would output as opposed to the official results and I think given my results, people would find it interesting and at the very least, they would have something to compare the current RPI/seeding system to.

cant you create ur own sim with it?

Quote: Originally Posted By joco45215 on 5/14/2010cant you create ur own sim with it

Its a ranking system not a game engine

colon el,

im not sure i agree, in fact, i think it is the other way around... that is, you can pretty much set up a schedule that will get you enough wins (assuming your conf is not too tough) and presto! top 50 rpi! and at large invite.

the guys who play the tough schedules are the ones who get out. the guys who have top 20 sos and win 4 or 5 or more games against top60 opponents, but they finish 15-12 and get out of the big dance, because, although rpi says they are a top50ish team, the current formula penalizes them for playign a tough schedule.

now, we can argue whether it is good that the system that rewards weakish scheduling is a good one or not.

but it is an absolute fact that a a difficult schedule will work against you if you have a 50ish rpi team



do this for me.... take any two teams on the bubble here in WIS two teams whose rpis are nearly identical in the low 50s. which one will get in? alllways (or very nearly allways) the team with the most wins (in other words the team with the easier schedule

Quote: Originally posted by oldave on 5/15/2010colon el,im not sure i agree, in fact, i think it is the other way around... that is,  you can pretty much set up a schedule that will get you enough wins (assuming your conf is not too tough) and presto!  top 50 rpi! and at large invite.the guys who play the tough schedules are the ones who get out.  the guys who have top 20 sos and win 4 or 5 or more games against top60 opponents, but they finish 15-12 and get out of the big dance, because, although rpi says they are a top50ish team, the current formula penalizes them for playign a tough schedule.  now,  we can argue whether it is good that the system that rewards weakish scheduling is a good one or not.but it is an absolute fact that a a difficult schedule will work  against you if you have a 50ish rpi team do this for me.... take any two teams on the bubble here in WIS two teams whose rpis are nearly identical in the low 50s.  which one will get in?  alllways (or very nearly allways) the team with the most wins (in other words the team with the easier schedule

Right, because every single time in that instance if the team with the tougher schedule had more wins their RPI would be better and they wouldnt be on the bubble.

You can't say that for sure. You have no way of knowing that. If they win games on the road the RPI might be the same or better.

What are you doing up at 6:32 anyways!

you kinda lost me there emmty.

i mean its seems like you are kind of stating the obvious. i mean, if a team has a difficult sos and alot of wins, then obviously they are in.



What I was saying is this:

Lets define "bubble team" as a team with rpi in the low 50s. we can quibble about what the exact number is , but lets just say low 50s.

sometimes you will be comparing teams with very similar resumes. i those cases i would guess its either a coinflip a type of deal or else just give the bid to the team witht he better rpi (even if its only a few thousandths better)

BUT, other times the two teams being compared have vastly different resumes. and it usually goes something like this:

Team A - 16-12 rpi51 difficult schedule, tough conference, 4 or 5 wins versus NT teams, but several losses versus PITish teams and lots of loses versus really good teams

Team B - 26-3 rpi54 easy schedule, weak conference, no wins versus NT teams, only played two NT quality teams and lost them both. lost in CT final to a PITish quality team.



obviously that is kind of an extreme example, but it illustrates my point. In these cases, the committe (in HD) will allways allways allways select the 26win team.

Im not commenting here on which team might deserve to win, just stating a fact that the high win , bad sos team will allways be chosen ahead of a team with a simialr rpi, but fewer wins and tougher schedule.

this was in rebuttal to the kernel, who stated that its easy to make the NT if you just put together a murderous schedule and let the difficult sos float your rpi.

the first problem i have with that statement is that against a top10 sos schedule, its not an easy task for a team with bubblish talent to stay above .500.

the second problem is what i have shown above... that the teams with easy schedules will allways be taken ahead of the teams with difficult schedules (if their rpis are similar)

okay, now I will actually comment on whether it is fair that the weak schedule teams have this advantage.

the main thing that doesnt sit right with me in these cases is that some of these weak schedule teams have not even shown the ability to beat an NT team. as in they have zero wins versus teams of this caliber. As compared to the tough schedule team that might have 3 or 4 or 5 wins versus NTquality teams.

One thing that i think is sometimes enlightening in these cases is to throw out all the wins versus "weak" teams. (for example, define "weak" as worse than 140rpi) and then throw out all the losses against really strong teams (could be definted as "top25 teams" or "top10 teams" or something like that) and then compare records. And then maybe you get a one win bonus for beating a strong team. and a one loss penalty for losing to weak teams (the bonus and penalty are on top of the win or loss, so that basically you get 2 wins for beating a strong team, 2 losses for losing to a weak team.

sometimes that proves enlightening... sometimes it doesnt.

However, while there is a part of me that is really offended by the fact that the easy-schedulers have a built in advantage (a tiebreaker if you will) when it comes to making the NT.... these easy schedulers are often midmjaors who are mostly at the mercy of thier very weak conference. and they have fought an uphill battle in recruiting to build a very respecatable team. if we assume the strong schedule teams are big6 teams with all the recruiting money and other advantages which come with being in a top conference, then it is clear that they are fully equipped to overcome the slight disadvantage that HD imposes on teams with tough schedules.. they are big boys, they can handle it.