You had me at “legitimately”

Posted by oldresorter on 1/20/2022 2:22:00 PM (view original):
LOL - I almost never (maybe once a year) read the forums or comment even on my conference board, but somehow I popped onto this little gem of a thread. I found it highly interesting, all sides of it. My only comment to all of you posters woth strong opinions of your own pov and distaste for others POV, is you all have way more in common than not, and I'd do my best to treat each other with the utmost respect, no matter how wrong someone seems or different their pov is than you own - generally, you are all 1%'ers in terms of understanding how this engine works.

for all its' worth, I see nothing wrong with how rowle coaches, he's done just fine in my only remaining world.

About the last 4 seasons, I've been paying more attention to my team, after playing for a pretty long time where I did the bare minimum of maintenance, gameplanning, etc, including the dreaded missing recruiting sessions. I'd like to say by paying more attention, I'm doing well, but so far, mostly underperforming, not overperforming.

IMO the greatest area the game could improve at from my standpoint, is in the area of programming in some advanced stats packages. Some of this stuff I've manually done when I was playing more ardently, some I have not, a list of my fav's, hardly is all encompossing, but would include:

simple on/off or +/- for each player
advance orpm or drpm (o and d ratings adjusted to who is on the floor with you or Real plus minus)
ts% - one of the easiest to do
2 to 5 man lineups effectiveness (either using simple +/- or using rpm's)
a little better form of usg% (the player shooting window has something like it, but it's not what college or pro stats bases use)

for example, do any of you know in seasons when recruiting goes bad, just how bad is the team when a walkon (or a bad recruit as opposed to the pristine 90/90/90 guys most of your rosters are full of) is the 9th man vs playing with 8 scholy guys? I've maybe looked at this 4-5 times, I've not been able to see a huge +/- difference when that player plays or doesn't play. but it would be fun to know such things, and maybe would make gameplanning & roster planning much more fun.

another change to the game, I'd love to have end of game lineups option, maybe even end of game player game plans (if you have access to clutch advanced stats for college or nba, usg% changes to increase the amount of shots top players take).

yet another, related to the last one, I'd also like the ability to lineups vs an oppenent defense, so a team might use a more balanced lineup vs a press, since 10-12 players might play, while vs a zone team, a coach might wnat to start his 5 best and only have a 7-8 man rotation.

none of these ideas wouild change the engine itself, but would greatly enhance the coaching experience, and make it more like real life.

anyhow, take care everyone, I might start posting a little more again, so don't be surprised if I pop in or out in more of these discussions.

OR, glad to see you're still here. One of the Mount Rushmore of HD greats.

Posted by abninety on 1/24/2022 10:17:00 PM (view original):
legitimately entertained that i was banned for openly having schools that were 800 miles away instead of 1000. have to say: kind of stunned youngstown and missouri aren't 1000 miles away, but not something i care enough to see through. i do wish there were more 2 a day worlds.

this has been handled about as childishly as I expected. I'll do my best Jon Gruden impersonation and tell everybody that i don't need this ****. the titles don't bring enough joy to warrant withstanding the joylessness of the community. so many of you are playing a game about sports in which you are only interacting with words and numbers, never even watching the "game," and yet you all treat this like it's the olympics and you're representing the iraqi contingent. Saddam is dead, boys. Party party.

Adios, MathSports. My only regret is that I won so often it became stale.

No coach would be banned for just one 1000 mile distance violation. You know that, as you've had about a dozen of your burner accounts removed over the past couple months, amongst other violations. You got away with more foul play than the entire community combined. So at least you can be proud of that.

The titles became stale because you never worked for them. You know why you were here, and actually playing the basketball numbers game was not the reason. You brought the "joylessness" on yourself. I doubt that you'll really go away. You enjoy being a thorn (and I don't blame ya. In some ways thats often fun!). But I'm glad they finally took action against your hoarder account. You started getting a little evil to some people in those conference chats.

You know you can always come back on a new account and play like the rest of us. Hope you do. Would love to compete against you. It's not good to lose any coaches, and that's why you had such a long leash. But you were really pushing limits. Its fitting to me, that you came to the most active thread of the moment to vent about this, in which it's titled..... "the fairplay stuff". Oh the irony.

Posted by abninety on 1/24/2022 10:17:00 PM (view original):
legitimately entertained that i was banned for openly having schools that were 800 miles away instead of 1000. have to say: kind of stunned youngstown and missouri aren't 1000 miles away, but not something i care enough to see through. i do wish there were more 2 a day worlds.

this has been handled about as childishly as I expected. I'll do my best Jon Gruden impersonation and tell everybody that i don't need this ****. the titles don't bring enough joy to warrant withstanding the joylessness of the community. so many of you are playing a game about sports in which you are only interacting with words and numbers, never even watching the "game," and yet you all treat this like it's the olympics and you're representing the iraqi contingent. Saddam is dead, boys. Party party.

Adios, MathSports. My only regret is that I won so often it became stale.

A few memorable quotes from AB the last time we were in a conference together:

”I expect you have only a bachelor’s degree and an insecurity about your standing in the world… don’t worry daddy’s here. He’s built many dynasties and he’s a top 5 HD guy. So I’m going to F*** you until you love me.”

“I play the game for free, often with enough points to snag a handful of Amazon $25 gift cards every few months. I’m your daddy. I’m going to enjoy beating you a** until you become a man and leave the house.”

Aside from the verbal attacks, constant cheating, numerous lies, shady strategy, and blatant disrespect for HD, WIS truly is losing a stand up guy.

Posted by gillispie on 1/24/2022 3:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/24/2022 1:57:00 PM (view original):
It’s interesting that you bring up “volatility” gil. I’ve been suspicious for the past few months (1-12 depending on the topic) that the post-seble handlers have been tinkering with volatility in various areas. First injuries, then grades, and more recently I’ve wondered if parts of the game engine haven’t been touched (probably temporary, or intermittently) as well. Like a FG% probability variable for a game widens by a percentage point or 3, for a few games at a time, and this gets felt a little more by teams running uptempo, or FB/P (and especially both). Outside of that context, of course, from a statistical standpoint, we would expect running uptempo FB/P to increase possessions, which should *decrease* volatility. As the sample size increases, the outcomes should head back toward the mean, right? Which should be advantageous for the better teams under normal circumstances (ie, if we could assume normal probability variables).

"Outside of that context, of course, from a statistical standpoint, we would expect running uptempo FB/P to increase possessions, which should *decrease* volatility. As the sample size increases, the outcomes should head back toward the mean, right? Which should be advantageous for the better teams under normal circumstances"

i think this is the baseline way to think about tempo, you know, more possessions is more time to revert to mean. but i think you also agree that in reality, that isn't how it shakes out, because the per-possession performance drops off (with uptempo but not slowdown). i think we all share uncertainty around why, is it just fatigue, or is there additional penalty for uptempo, etc? (my suggestion is to assume its only fatigue). but clearly the uptempo does seem to impact per possession efficiency, and when fatigue is a bigger factor (press, not that deep uptempo teams, etc), this correlation is much clearer. if you are paying a cost per possession to get those extra 10% of possessions, even a small efficiency hit could outweigh those extra possessions.

the other thing is foul trouble. more possessions means more opportunity for fouls, in general, and particularly, more opportunities for two quick fouls. in the feedback world of today's HD, serious foul trouble tends to come in the form of 2 quick fouls on multiple players (or 1 critical one), more than players actually fouling out with 5 with a lot of game left to play. the more possessions you have in those first 15 minutes, the more opportunities for 2 quick fouls to hit you on a critical player or on multiple players. and if you are decently fatigued on average owning to a high pace scheme (normal tempo press and higher), the increased fatigue from going uptempo is going to compound fouls, which seem to pick up considerably in the face of fatigue.

to me, here's how it ends up shakes out (for uptempo press or fb/pr). in general, there's three main cases (favorite, underdog, even), but two of which are most applicable here. assuming you are a great team, you are basically play near-even opponents in the toughest games, and are a big favorite in most of the rest. in those near-even games, that sort of standard, baseline call for uptempo - more possessions, reversion to mean - it doesn't buy you anything. that helps as a favorite, or works against you as an underdog, but in theory does nothing in a 50/50 game. now, maybe when it comes to fouls and fatigue, your suffering from extra possessions is less than the opponent. but in the realm of top tier teams, most of them have depth, and it seems to me the press or fb/press team is almost always losing the exchange (assuming their opponent is a lower fatigue scheme, uptempo press into fb/pr is a different story). so in these sort of 50-50 games between powerhouse teams, i find it is extremely difficult to find a justification for uptempo as the higher pace press or fb/pr scheme. (caveat: especially with 3.0, there's way higher odds your title opponent is like some 8-9 deep team - this is not the normal i have lived though, i expect my toughest opponents to be like 10 deep man teams or deeper).

so then you have the healthy favorite games, where the reversion to mean argument makes most sense. however, IMO, the more you look at being a bigger and bigger favorite, uptempo press makes less and less sense (i never run uptempo press as say, a 1 seed into a 16, and fb/pr i am even more anti-uptempo in that matchup). the reason is, when you are prohibitive favorite (which can even happen in like, a #1 press team vs a #15 man team), the only way you lose is the really **** sims, and when it comes to press teams, almost all your really **** sims have foul / fatigue trouble. its so easy to get your starting pg two fouls in the first 5 minutes, and now you are basically barely surviving foul/fatigue trouble, if nothing else goes wrong. severe foul trouble games might be rare - let's say 5-10% for these fb/pr teams - but if you are basically losing to a team 5-10% of the time to start with (normal tempo), that's pretty much where all your losses are coming from (more or less), so you can't justify increasing that. in a 70-30 game, those bottom 5-10% of sims are less important, and perhaps there, there is some room for uptempo press. at least the argument is murkier (modest benefit from the extra possessions, but less obvious downsides). i don't play uptempo there either because i have had too many top tier pressing teams, and tried it too many times with too consistently poor of results (i did have an uptempo press team beat super legit final 4 and title opponents by 40 and 26 respectively, once, but that was before the 'new sim engine' changes from 10 years ago, that significantly increased fatigue and foul pressure on press teams. i was slightly anti-uptempo press, in the old sim engine, but in the new sim engine that slight preference became the intense aversion i have now).


to your other point - i don't think the current HD development staff really has the understanding of the game itself, or the sim engine code, to be in there tinkering with some of that stuff. or the time. i struggle to imagine they are trying to make changes to 8 games, can't get out their relatively self-contained firings release (not criticizing or complaining!), but are on the side making unannounced changes to a bunch of more complex stuff. also in the code itself, i don't think there are direct levers to pull for volatility in general, something like grades probably due to its simplicity, but things like fg% volatility, i really doubt it. their ability to say 'let's increase volatility on fg% by 3%' is more or less zero, in my understanding. they have to go pull other levers to try to drive that sort of result, that is really tough and it seems sort of nuts for them to go do that now. plus they'd probably screw it up pretty badly, and we'd be seeing stuff all over (again, not a criticism! when it comes to mapping inputs to outputs, the sim engine must be a big black box, even to the guy who originally wrote it).

what is way more likely IMO, is they tried to make a little self contained change somewhere, and didn't realize it was going to impact a bunch of other stuff, and you are seeing the unintended, downstream effects of more or less announced changes. it also could be just your pattern matching brain picking up things in the RNG?

Pretty much my thumbnail guide to uptempo is ‘if you have a substantial advantage in athleticism/def(especially ath) AND stamina. Against top flight teams that is rarely going to be the case. However, if for example I see his starting PG has fouled out multiple times and carries a high foul load in general, for example. Or that the team in general tends to carry some fouls and I have a decent advantage in ath/sta and or they carry a short rotation, it might be worth it?

Posted by abninety on 1/24/2022 10:17:00 PM (view original):
legitimately entertained that i was banned for openly having schools that were 800 miles away instead of 1000. have to say: kind of stunned youngstown and missouri aren't 1000 miles away, but not something i care enough to see through. i do wish there were more 2 a day worlds.

this has been handled about as childishly as I expected. I'll do my best Jon Gruden impersonation and tell everybody that i don't need this ****. the titles don't bring enough joy to warrant withstanding the joylessness of the community. so many of you are playing a game about sports in which you are only interacting with words and numbers, never even watching the "game," and yet you all treat this like it's the olympics and you're representing the iraqi contingent. Saddam is dead, boys. Party party.

Adios, MathSports. My only regret is that I won so often it became stale.

Legitimately entertained at this puffed chest popinjay sour grapes exit. Worthy of a disaffected teenager. 1 out of 5 stars, would not recommend.

Posted by abninety on 1/24/2022 10:17:00 PM (view original):
legitimately entertained that i was banned for openly having schools that were 800 miles away instead of 1000. have to say: kind of stunned youngstown and missouri aren't 1000 miles away, but not something i care enough to see through. i do wish there were more 2 a day worlds.

this has been handled about as childishly as I expected. I'll do my best Jon Gruden impersonation and tell everybody that i don't need this ****. the titles don't bring enough joy to warrant withstanding the joylessness of the community. so many of you are playing a game about sports in which you are only interacting with words and numbers, never even watching the "game," and yet you all treat this like it's the olympics and you're representing the iraqi contingent. Saddam is dead, boys. Party party.

Adios, MathSports. My only regret is that I won so often it became stale.

Bye Felicia

My name is Albert Brown and I was born in 1990. And my username is finally available!!!!

to your other point - i don't think the current HD development staff really has the understanding of the game itself, or the sim engine code, to be in there tinkering with some of that stuff. or the time. i struggle to imagine they are trying to make changes to 8 games, can't get out their relatively self-contained firings release (not criticizing or complaining!), but are on the side making unannounced changes to a bunch of more complex stuff.

This was my thought exactly. They seem to do a good job of taking the time to test any potential changes. I doubt they'd just tinker with things.

With that said.... Am I crazy or does it seem like RS2 recruits are signing a little later? I feel like half of them used to sign within the first 2 cycles, but I've been seeing more recruits last until days 2 and 3. And they did vaguely mention something about changes to RS2.

Posted by mlitney on 1/25/2022 10:03:00 AM (view original):

to your other point - i don't think the current HD development staff really has the understanding of the game itself, or the sim engine code, to be in there tinkering with some of that stuff. or the time. i struggle to imagine they are trying to make changes to 8 games, can't get out their relatively self-contained firings release (not criticizing or complaining!), but are on the side making unannounced changes to a bunch of more complex stuff.

This was my thought exactly. They seem to do a good job of taking the time to test any potential changes. I doubt they'd just tinker with things.

With that said.... Am I crazy or does it seem like RS2 recruits are signing a little later? I feel like half of them used to sign within the first 2 cycles, but I've been seeing more recruits last until days 2 and 3. And they did vaguely mention something about changes to RS2.

All I’m going to say about this - prefaced with the obvious fact that this is speculative and anecdotal - is that this is the line (we don’t even really understand the code or how to do that) they’ve been using for a long time, long before these guys were here. And I understand they’re dealing with code that is not easily accessible today. I acknowledge that. And I also recognize that plausible deniability exists as corporate strategy, and is probably a good idea in any case. So even if I did believe the guy (seble) who orchestrated 3.0 (which included a lot of big changes to the game) couldn’t figure out how to make any tweaks to the game engine in a stable way, we would never get admission (nor should we - unless and until it was part of a coordinated and planned update/patch release) anyway.

You can think of me as a conspiracy theorist in that sense, I suppose, but I operate under the assumption that there is plenty under the hood that we are not (and probably should not be) given access to. adlorenz flat out told me via sitemail that they were “looking into” ways to make tempo more balanced, and outside of minor changes to the game engine, which clearly would have been tested out first in offline worlds, I don’t see how that would be even thinkable.

What did I miss?

Posted by abninety on 1/24/2022 10:17:00 PM (view original):
legitimately entertained that i was banned for openly having schools that were 800 miles away instead of 1000. have to say: kind of stunned youngstown and missouri aren't 1000 miles away, but not something i care enough to see through. i do wish there were more 2 a day worlds.

this has been handled about as childishly as I expected. I'll do my best Jon Gruden impersonation and tell everybody that i don't need this ****. the titles don't bring enough joy to warrant withstanding the joylessness of the community. so many of you are playing a game about sports in which you are only interacting with words and numbers, never even watching the "game," and yet you all treat this like it's the olympics and you're representing the iraqi contingent. Saddam is dead, boys. Party party.

Adios, MathSports. My only regret is that I won so often it became stale.

you're really dim enough to not realize that Ohio and Missouri are within 1000 miles of each other? wow.