I have these two players on a bad d3 team:

Name	Yr.	Pos.	A	SPD	REB	LP	PE	BH	P	ST	FT	OFF IQ (Triangle)
Daniel Barbeau	Jr.	C	20	30	82	82	11	18	28	70	C+	B+
Ronald Parker	Sr.	PF	38	40	81	60	43	24	26	72	C+	A-

At first look, I thought they would be similarly efficient on offense.  I'll post some numbers a little later but one player is significant over performing the other.

Relevant information not in stats:

Parker starts at either PF or C against the weaker defender.
Babrbeau is the first backup at PF and C.   

Parker +20 in Ath(able to finish around the basket), +10 in speed(ability to beat defender 1 vs 1). Better perimeter rating, so can shoot a little further away from the basket, where as Barbeau can only hit shots that are close in range.

Barbeau has an advantage in LP, but he doesn't have the ballhandling, speed or athleticism to compliment it.

If Barbeau is going up against the stronger defender, that will definitely make a difference.

Yeah, I was surprised at the impact SPEED and PERIMETER have in Parker's efficiency.   I thought the 22 point difference in LP and  18 point differnce in ATH would more or less cancel each other out.   If anything, I thought the higher LP would be a better scorer.

I wonder if the speed and perimeter have some sort of "synergy bonus".   I think those two are linked in the scoring equation and I don't know if one is beneficial, without the other from post players.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/13/2014 11:55:00 AM (view original):
Yeah, I was surprised at the impact SPEED and PERIMETER have in Parker's efficiency.   I thought the 22 point difference in LP and  18 point differnce in ATH would more or less cancel each other out.   If anything, I thought the higher LP would be a better scorer.

I wonder if the speed and perimeter have some sort of "synergy bonus".   I think those two are linked in the scoring equation and I don't know if one is beneficial, without the other from post players.

I just noticed that they were both at PF and not center from your last game. I'm thinking the center will normally play closer to the basket than the power forward will. It's possible the power forward is starting at the high post where Parker has better skills to get to the basket from that spot than Barbeau.

Now that I'm thinking of possible additions to be added to the game, other than describing the principles of each offense, flex, fb, motion and triangle, it would be nice if they diagrammed everything out, where each player starts out on offense and other relevant information. etc.

Guys like Barbeau are only really useful for tip-ins on offense I've observed.  Can't give them much distribution or they simply flop.

Barbeau's athleticism is a huge huge liability. Guys with high ath can have lower lp and still shoot high pct. My only ever high lp leading scorer was way early on at my current school. I run a flex, though, and have seen triangles kill with hi tempo and lp. The ath has to be more competitive, though. I'm intrigued that Barbeau is rebounding at a higher pct. Does Barbeau play much as the backup pf, or is there another player who also gets backup pf mins with Barbeau getting mostly c mins?

hey joe,  interesting thread.
  
one small thing is that in the first post you list the IQs as A- for Barbeau and B+ for Parker.  its actually the other way around.
i wouldnt think that would be a huge factor in explaining the relative effeciencies of the two players,  but it explains a small bot of it, maybe.

I have long pondered how the engine treats PF vs C.   I thought that the last educated comments I had heard on that subject indicated that most top coaches felt that PF and C were pretty much interchangeable (other than the fact that it would change who defends them in m2m).  but that has been a while ago and i may not even be remembering it right.
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i do have to admit that it would seem logical to have differences in how the engine treats PF and C... all the other positions are treated differently

for what its worth,  i am in the camp that is a bit surprised that Barbeau is such an offensive liability, especially coming off the bench and given modest distro.

I have been wanting to develop a pbp analyzer that would, among other things, be able to tell me if a player is more effective when playing one position than another,  but life keeps getting in the way.

Thanks man.   I fixed the IQ.

I think of the PF and C as interchangeable parts.    It makes logical sense that the PF should use more "guard" skills (SPD, BH, PASS) than the center but it's hard for me to figure out if those variables really influence game play.  I have no hard data nor even really an idea if or how much that is true.