Negative Consequences of a Redshirt Topic

the0nlyis
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I just wanted to see if there were possible negative effects forredshirting without notifying a recruit.  He is a D2 pulldown as well.

I know he could get angry and leave?  or does his WE just fall?  If so how likely is that?
8/25/2014 11:46 AM
guyo26
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WE could fall, he could leave at the end of the year.

BUT, you can put it on him  and see if he complains.  He may not, in which case you're fine.  I've redshirted tons of guys without them complaining, but it depends on where they are relative to other guys on your team.  If they're clearly the third or fourth option at their position they should take the redshirt no problem.
8/25/2014 11:57 AM
the0nlyis
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if he does complain, could I take the redshirt off and play him a bit to make him happier or once he complains is it over?  Right now he would probably be the 3rd option at SF as I have a Senior starter and another freshmen SF who has better ath/def ratings right now.
8/25/2014 12:01 PM
clouseb
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If they get mad from being redshirted, all you have to do is restore their eligibility and their WE will return as if nothing happened.  Really no reason not to try.  I sometimes try multiple players every season until i find one that will take it (who it makes sense to RS of course).  Every once in a while you will find a JR who takes the redshirt with no complaints.
8/25/2014 12:03 PM
the0nlyis
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okay great thanks for that knowledge, hopefully he takes it, haha
8/25/2014 12:04 PM
rogelio
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If the WE falls by more than you are willing to accept, then just take re-activate the player and the WE will return to the original number.  About a year ago, seble changed it so that successive iterations of applying the redshirt would always have the same or worse WE impact; never better than the first try.  I'm not even sure the transfer risk at the end of the season is substantial enough to worry about (unless you promised playing time or starts).

I thought things worked like guyo suggests, but seble clearly stated that position eligibility has NO effect upon whether a player will accept a redshirt.  If you believe otherwise, then that militates switching every single better player to that position during the exhibition schedule, applying the redshirt, then switching them back.  Seble clearly stated that gambit would not improve the odds of the player accepting the redshirt.  So, it looks at the roster as a whole to determine the odds for each level of WE impact.  If he's on the low end of your roster and a freshmen, then he should accept it with no WE impact or a relatively minor impact.  

8/25/2014 12:13 PM
the0nlyis
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well his work ethic dropped from 37-24 so I had to restore eligibility and it's back at 37

So you are saying I could try to redshirt him again, but theres even a smaller chance that he takes it?  But I could try to redshirt another player and the effect or trying to redshirt a player before him has no effect on player #2
8/25/2014 3:20 PM (edited)
rogelio
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Posted by the0nlyis on 8/25/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
well his work ethic dropped from 37-24 so I had to restore eligibility and it's back at 37

So you are saying I could try to redshirt him again, but theres even a smaller chance that he takes it?  But I could try to redshirt another player and the effect or trying to redshirt a player before him has no effect on player #2
The way it is supposed to work, he should never give a better result than -13 WE.  It may even be progressively worse each time you apply it.  By "takes it" all anyone means is accepts it with zero or minimal WE hit.  There is no such thing as "rejecting it" outright once on the roster.

His response doesn't have any impact on your other player's likelihood of taking it with zero hit.  You are almost assured of getting your lowest OVR rated player to take it with no issue.  The question is only whether it's worth it.

8/25/2014 3:27 PM
clouseb
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Posted by the0nlyis on 8/25/2014 3:20:00 PM (view original):
well his work ethic dropped from 37-24 so I had to restore eligibility and it's back at 37

So you are saying I could try to redshirt him again, but theres even a smaller chance that he takes it?  But I could try to redshirt another player and the effect or trying to redshirt a player before him has no effect on player #2
If you try to redshirt him again this season there is no chance he accepts.  There used to be an exploitation where you could not play someone a single minute during the season and then try to redshirt them at the end of the year with a great chance of him taking it, but as mentioned Seble fixed this about a year ago.

You are correct in saying that you can still try to redshirt a different player with no negative affect from trying to redshirt a different player earlier.

8/25/2014 3:29 PM
npb7768
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In D3 once, I had a junior SG who had a WE of around 65, and no more blue categories and maybe just a couple of black categories.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?tid=8413&pid=2602354

Because I wanted to balance my classes, I notified him about the redshirt, and he sent an angry letter and dropped to maybe 63 for WE.  I expected him to drop a point a day and thought he'd maybe end up a around 30 to 35 for WE.   For whatever reason, I had second thoughts, and decided to remove the redshirt and he went back to 65.

Then I re-thought it a second time, and 5 minutes later I gave him a redshirt again (thought he'd go to a 63 again), and he immediately dropped to a WE of 1... in his second letter to me he called me wishy-washy like a fish flopping around out of water.   

He stayed with the team for the redshirt year and the 2 final years.   WE never improved above 1, though he played 15-16 minutes as a JR and SR.    His 3P% improved dramatically for his final 2 years... ended up being a solid player.

8/25/2014 3:59 PM (edited)
bistiza
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This is how it works:

If you inform of redshirt and sign the guy, he WILL accept the redshirt with no complaints 100 percent of the time.

If you don't inform, there are a number of factors which determine if he'll accept it, including (from my understanding, anyway) a bit of randomness. It depends upon the talent on your team and the talent on your team at his position among other things.

Generally speaking in my experience, any non-freshman is much harder to redshirt (I've never done it without informing first, but I'm told others have). Also, more talented players overall and pull-downs seem to be more difficult.

Here's my rule of thumb: If I know I want to redshirt a particular guy, I will inform him UNLESS 1. I'm in a battle for him; or 2. I don't have much recruiting cash left (or won't with other battles I"m in). Once you inform, you've got it made as long as you sign him.

If you take a chance and he doesn't accept it without a work ethic loss, determine if you're okay with that amount of work ethic being lost (forever except for gaining it back the same way he otherwise would). Sometimes they only lose a few points, sometimes they go ballistic and lose a bunch or all of it.

If you don't like the work ethic loss, take the shirt back off of him. Put it on someone else if you want to give them a shot. Or just don't use it.

BOTTOM LINE: It never hurts to try a redshirt, but if you want to make sure, just inform during recruiting.
8/30/2014 6:17 PM
Negative Consequences of a Redshirt Topic
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