Big man that can't rebound Topic

docmastermd
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At DII is it worth getting a guy who is 90+ in ATH and DEF but <40 REB to play Center?

I mean, the dude is going to be a beast in terms of preventing the other team from scoring. But is that low of rebounding going to hurt more than I am thinking?

BTW, this is the problem I have with height not affecting the game. A 6'0" SG who has high ATH and DEF still shoudln't be able to play down low with 6'8" + guys. But my question is in terms of this simulator.

9/19/2014 3:50 PM
artie40
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40 reb at center is a tough sell. Rebounding is, I think, a team statistic. You could have a 99 rebounder at C but if you pair that player with a 60 rebounding PF, you are only level with a team that has 80 at both C and PF. (Other coaches can confirm this fact, but this is how I've come to understand things). Thus, the reason why playing a 40 rebounding C would be difficult is you are taking a prime rebounding position and filling it with a sub-standard rebounder. Thus, I'd think if you wanted to play that person at C, your PF and SF would need to be excellent rebounders for their position (and it would help to have a SG that could pull down some boards, as well).
9/19/2014 4:21 PM
emy1013
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I've done something very similar before. You'll notice the effects, but it's also not necessarily a death sentence.
9/19/2014 5:00 PM
backboy13
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Posted by emy1013 on 9/19/2014 5:00:00 PM (view original):
I've done something very similar before. You'll notice the effects, but it's also not necessarily a death sentence.
I can echo this statement. My D2 teams usually have three solid rebounders, and either the starting or backup PF is in the high 40s/low 50s. If the guy is 80+ ATH and 80+ DEF, the positives probably outweigh the negatives, but I would try to avoid going lower than 45 really.
9/19/2014 5:38 PM
davefilby
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I have a 94 ATH and 89 DEF on my D-II team that was originally a C. But his SPD, BH, PAS, & PER will all be better than his REB, SB, and LP. Just because a player is listed at C doesn't mean he should play there.

My guy is a soph on a team with 6 seniors, so I haven't exactly figured out how to use him yet, but Jeffrey Peltier definitely won't play center.

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=6288

9/19/2014 7:27 PM
gillispie1
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Posted by docmastermd on 9/19/2014 3:50:00 PM (view original):
At DII is it worth getting a guy who is 90+ in ATH and DEF but <40 REB to play Center?

I mean, the dude is going to be a beast in terms of preventing the other team from scoring. But is that low of rebounding going to hurt more than I am thinking?

BTW, this is the problem I have with height not affecting the game. A 6'0" SG who has high ATH and DEF still shoudln't be able to play down low with 6'8" + guys. But my question is in terms of this simulator.

it depends. what are his offensive abilities like? and second, why are you playing him at center instead of pf or sf?

i think in general you should use the rule of thumb that players need to be good at 2 core abilities. for bigs, that is 2 out of offense, defense, and rebounding. if the guy is a great scorer too, then sure, but if hes not a strong offensive player, then hes not worth getting. 
9/19/2014 7:34 PM
emy1013
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Posted by gillispie1 on 9/19/2014 7:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by docmastermd on 9/19/2014 3:50:00 PM (view original):
At DII is it worth getting a guy who is 90+ in ATH and DEF but <40 REB to play Center?

I mean, the dude is going to be a beast in terms of preventing the other team from scoring. But is that low of rebounding going to hurt more than I am thinking?

BTW, this is the problem I have with height not affecting the game. A 6'0" SG who has high ATH and DEF still shoudln't be able to play down low with 6'8" + guys. But my question is in terms of this simulator.

it depends. what are his offensive abilities like? and second, why are you playing him at center instead of pf or sf?

i think in general you should use the rule of thumb that players need to be good at 2 core abilities. for bigs, that is 2 out of offense, defense, and rebounding. if the guy is a great scorer too, then sure, but if hes not a strong offensive player, then hes not worth getting. 
I agree. Having role players is fine, but if this particular guy can't rebound OR score, then you can probably find better alternatives somewhere else.
9/19/2014 10:41 PM
docmastermd
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The guy has 25 speed. Only spot for him is inside with that. So i was just feeling it out. He's not my go to option. But he's on the list with that high in the ATH/DEF department.
9/20/2014 2:26 PM
rak
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A guy with 90+ ATH and DEF and 25 SP will do fine as a DIII SF, except perhaps if you run FB. And once his IQ improves, he will be a decent to good scorer even with low LP and PER.  ATH this high is so rare at DIII, that I would grab him if I could and figure out the details later..

9/20/2014 10:11 PM
rak
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Sorry, I just reread the initial post and realized you are talking about DII - I haven't had a DII team in ages so I can't speak to that.
9/21/2014 3:24 AM
scaturo
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Posted by emy1013 on 9/19/2014 5:00:00 PM (view original):
I've done something very similar before. You'll notice the effects, but it's also not necessarily a death sentence.
I ran a 90 ATH 90 DEF 35 REB guy awhile back at PF and got murdered.   Going low on REB isn't a death sentence but it is a HUGE obstacle to over come.

Some things to consider when trying it:

What defense do you run?  I did it with zone which made the rebounding effect even worse.   M2M will help with Rebounding and Press will cause some turnovers but zone doesn't really have a benefit that helps there.

Is your team efficient in scoring?  For the defense based teams I run, all the missed shots compounded the problem.

Is the players Shot Block skill low as well?  That's like (at least) 20-30% of the defensive metric.  The 90 ATH 90 DEF 30 BLOCK guy is still a good defender but he isn't great anymore and might not be worth it.

And if he can't rebound (or rebounds poorly) what else does he do?  It's probably not worth it if you are just trying to get a defensive stud in the game.

9/22/2014 11:04 AM
Big man that can't rebound Topic
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