Except for Bill's last season when he finally put it together and learned how to defend....




Just going to leave this here:

Shot%	Def Rating	Position Effectiveness
Perimeter	Midrange	Paint		PG	SG	SF	PF	C
38%	34%	29%	79	100%	100%	98%	87%	77%

	Name	Team	P	Min	MPG	PPG	FG%	3PT%	FT%	ORPG	RPG	APG	TOPG	SPG	BPG	FPG	Def	Salary
	Russell, Bill	63-64 Celtics	C	3570	44.6	15.0	43.3	0.0	55.0	7.3	24.7	4.8	2.9	1.5	3.6	2.4	74	$9,160,158
	Russell, Bill	62-63 Celtics	C	3588	44.9	16.8	43.2	0.0	55.7	7.1	23.6	4.5	3.1	1.5	3.6	2.4	74	$9,050,975
	Russell, Bill	64-65 Celtics	C	3553	44.4	14.1	43.8	0.0	57.4	7.1	24.1	5.3	2.9	1.6	3.4	2.6	70	$9,017,227
	Russell, Bill	61-62 Celtics	C	3519	45.1	18.9	45.7	0.0	59.5	7.0	23.6	4.5	3.1	1.6	3.5	2.7	70	$8,829,593
	Russell, Bill	59-60 Celtics	C	3440	42.5	18.2	46.7	0.0	61.3	7.1	24.0	3.7	2.8	1.5	3.5	2.8	70	$8,734,189
	Russell, Bill	60-61 Celtics	C	3590	44.3	17.0	42.6	0.0	55.0	7.1	23.9	3.4	2.8	1.4	3.6	2.0	70	$8,601,107
	Russell, Bill	58-59 Celtics	C	3393	42.4	16.6	45.8	0.0	59.8	6.9	23.0	3.2	2.7	1.3	3.3	2.3	74	$8,563,960
	Russell, Bill	66-67 Celtics	C	3338	40.7	13.3	45.4	17.9	61.1	6.2	21.0	5.8	3.1	1.6	3.0	3.2	70	$8,417,455
	Russell, Bill	65-66 Celtics	C	3471	43.4	12.9	41.5	0.0	55.0	6.7	22.8	4.8	2.9	1.5	3.3	2.8	70	$8,317,304
	Russell, Bill	68-69 Celtics	C	3291	42.7	9.9	43.3	0.0	52.6	5.8	19.3	4.9	2.7	1.4	2.9	3.0	90	$7,615,013
	Russell, Bill	57-58 Celtics	C	3007	38.1	16.5	44.2	0.0	51.9	7.0	22.7	2.9	2.9	1.3	3.6	2.6	77	$7,561,976
	Russell, Bill	67-68 Celtics	C	2953	37.9	12.5	42.5	0.0	53.7	5.7	18.6	4.6	3.0	1.5	2.9	3.1	70	$6,932,666
	Russell, Bill	56-57 Celtics	C	1931	35.1	14.7	42.7	0.0	49.4	6.3	19.6	1.8	2.8	1.2	3.2	3.0	73	$4,373,344

we know that they refuse to address the lack of Dpoy and All Defensive nods (since they didn't exist until Russell's last season) for pre-era players (esp. Russell)

but I'd submit that there's something else wrong with the way they generate D ratings, check out how Klay Thompson is a better defender than Dray Green, stats to the contrary, drtg and dws to the contrary etc - not sure how they come up with these ratings is there a positional factor?

I thought their defensive ratings were based on blocks and steals and that position played is a factor. It gives credit to guys who aren't guarding their man and are chasing steals instead. The one that gets me (besides Russell) is Dr. J. He was always considered a below average defensive player and he has multiple 100 ratings here.

when was Dr J considered a below average defender? I just finished the book Loose Balls, a Verbal History of the ABA and every single person quoted in the book revered Erving for his defensive prowess

as for the ratings issue, Dray vs Klay they are on the same team so we can discount any team centric stats that might be in play and Dray has significantly better Drb, Stl, Blk #s than Klay, and significantly better advanced #s (drtg, dws) than Klay - I think it's a revealing comparison that lays bare what appears to be a flaw in the ratings equation

Position plays a large role. Harden and Thompson get huge boosts by playing a weak position.

before any of the awards and teams have been announced there are 32 player seasons with drtg of 80 or above listed for the 14-15 season compare with post award adjusted seasons:

13-14 = 22
12-13 = 26
11-12 = 28
10-11 = 20
92-93 = 22
85-86 = 22
77-78 = 26
65-66 = 1 (Wilt not Russell)

that's before the adjustments for the awards even - people we have just witnessed the greatest array of defensive talent to ever grace the game...

I used to watch him play. I don't remember anyone talking about his defense. I always thought he was average defensively. Bill Simmons called him below average in his basketball book. Anything that happened in the ABA can be taken with a grain of salt.

a)bosoxbill has some funny thoughts about anyone who played against his precious Celtics
b)Dr J logged several drtg seasons in the 90s which is elite level

c) in the first season post merger with a league of 6 teams folding into a league of 18 teams 10 of the 22 all stars were former ABA players, two of the 4 merged ABA teams won their divisions, and 5 of the 10 starters on the teams in the finals were former ABA players including the two best players on the 76ers and the second best player on the blazers so maybe anything that happened in the NBA pre merger is what should be taken with a grain of salt

Doc was a great blocks, steals, and rebounds. That gets you a good defensive rating in this game.

but to his point it shouldn't get you 100s - my understanding is that past a baseline derived from the stats you need to be named to All Defensive squads and/or named DPoY to get ratings that high (I guess I'm wrong)

defensive rebounding was removed from the equation (rightfully so) for defensive rating in the sim.  Troy Murphy used to be an all-time defender in wisnba.  As did Reggie Evans & anybody else with 30% dreb.

The new players got me back here to check them out.

The D-rating  is a poor system,  and so are defensive win shares.  2015 Harden's 103 rating is about the same as most Payton seasons and Harden ranks high in def win shares, too.  

So there is no reliable rating that WIS can look at for defense.  Maybe just do away with it except for all defense teams.  

 Better to make us pay for a coaching strategy in defense and remove individual rankings.  Teams with an all def player would get a bump though.

Posted by ashamael on 4/21/2015 5:54:00 PM (view original):
defensive rebounding was removed from the equation (rightfully so) for defensive rating in the sim.  Troy Murphy used to be an all-time defender in wisnba.  As did Reggie Evans & anybody else with 30% dreb.

Ha, I remember that.  When Murphy could defend like a demon and play small forward, he was a ridiculous asset.

Yeah, man. 58% efg, 160ish threes, 30% dreb & 96 defense for almost 2500 minutes AT SMALL FORWARD.  Good stuff.