I have 2 extraordinary PGs. They are the 2 top ranked players in all of Knight D3. And yet, their stats on the year are terrible (FG%, TO/Assist ratios, fouls) and the team is struggling big time. Overall, I realize that Pacific Lutheran doesn't have many other offensive options right now and we're still young and growing at the low post positions. By the end of the season, we should have some other viable offensive threats. But, to me, that still doesn't explain the awful start to the season these 2 players have had considering their ratings. I must be doing something terribly wrong with these 2. I've tried different combinations and have settled on letting another player handle the PG position with a little better results recently, but I don't know why I can't just plug these 2 guys in at either guard position with very high offensive distributions and have them dominate on offense. Obviously, I'm missing something and my lack of experience in HD is showing up. If anyone can help me to rescue this season, I would appreciate it.   

Allen Yang: www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx

Josh Crispin: www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx

Pacific Lutheran Team: www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx

u have the #6 ranked schedule. chill out bro

I'd start Yang PG, Crispin SG. I'd set 3s at +2 for Crispin, especially against press and 2-3 zones. I'd set Yang at +1. Crispin is a 3 distro, Yang a 2. Other players should be 1 if they have hope to score. If you have another Yang, 2 distro.

I don't know why they aren't both starting.

They might be suffering from taking to many shots....if one player has more than 50% of the shots taken by the players currently in the game, there is a penalty.....I agree that they should both be starting. 

"if one player has more than 50% of the shots taken by the players currently in the game, there is a penalty"

Whoa. Never knew that.
I always thought the penalty came into play if a player on the court had more than 50% of the DISTRO rather than shots taken.

The number 6th ranked schedule might explain the W-L record, and I understand that this team has to improve some before it can compete consistently with the top level D3 opponents, but I don't think that explains why the 2 top ranked players in Knight D3 are struggling so badly. I'm sure Yang & Crispin will dominate when we play the several 200+ RPI teams in the NW Conference. What I want to understand is why they're having such terrible stats against the high quality teams we've been playing. I don't get, given their ratings, why they wouldn't be putting up at least fairly decent numbers against difficult opponents. Frankly, so far, they have been playing no better than a couple average sophomores. I guess this is a bit of a whine, but mainly, I'm trying to figure out what I might be doing wrong and learn from those who have much more knowledge about HD than I do.     

zorzii - I do already have the the 3pt settings at where you suggested.  The reason I haven't started them both is because I wanted to have some quality offense on the floor as much as possible during the game. Since I need to let a couple of my other offensive options develop a little more before trusting them with higher distro, I figured always having 1 of the 2 coming off the bench would be a good way of doing that. Is that not a good idea? I will try starting them both to see if that helps. Thanks for the input!

scaturo - Really appreciate that info! Like beefbuglar, I didn't know there was a penalty when a player has more than 50% of the shots. I thought there would be some negative impact for giving so much distro to Yang &  Crispin, but if the results so far are any indication, that penalty might be much more severe than I figured. Not to dispute what you are saying, but how does a player like Kenneth Patterson www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Stats.aspx get away with what must be outrageous distro numbers when his offensive ratings are not nearly as good as Crispin or probably even Yang's? I did notice better results when I lowered both of their distros last game, but not sure why it's necessary when looking at players like Dziedzic www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx, Gallenstein www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx, or Tsao www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx. 

I have not analyzed the team in depth, but you need to start them both and maximize their minutes.

Your first five games were against press teams and those two guys are your best BH/PASS as well as your best scorers.  Play them both, let them each benefit from passes from the other, let them both score.

Posted by mamxet on 6/15/2015 11:47:00 PM (view original):
I have not analyzed the team in depth, but you need to start them both and maximize their minutes.

Your first five games were against press teams and those two guys are your best BH/PASS as well as your best scorers.  Play them both, let them each benefit from passes from the other, let them both score.

Seriously players that good you get on the floor. I had a team like that just recently with two stellar guards and a bunch of OK players. Put them on the floor together, gave them the shots and let them carry me to a title and championship game appearance. Obviously their individual scoring numbers weren't as high as they could be but they were so efficient together and it prevented other coaches from dialing in on one or the other.

I think you have it figured out now.  Other teams have good players also.  ---  I play flex with press, and the way you have it set with slowdown is good because you will keep the ball in theirs hands most of the time.   Also I would make sure I'm not wearing them out, in a few early games they got tired.

Thanks for the input guys. Guess I was over thinking it by trying to have one of them come off the bench. Will get them  both in the starting lineup. I still have a lot to learn about this game. 

I'd look into:
Why your opponents shot 182 FT's and you 110?
Why 2 guys with 94 and 85 Stam. can't play more than 20 minutes.

Quick update - Since having both Crispin & Yang in the starting lineup, Pacific Lutheran has won their last 4 non-conference games against good opponents, including a road win against a top 10 team. I need to get some different players starts to help improve their work ethic, so I'm going to target minutes for games against 200+ RPI teams, but will go back to the lineup that has been so successful recently for the tougher match-ups. Thanks again for the help!

mizzou77 - Fouls are another part of the HD game that I don't really understand very well. It seems like good teams are consistently able to get my better players into foul trouble, especially my guards. Not just with this Pacific Lutheran team, but it happens with all my different D3 teams. I don't understand how they do it and I don't know what to do about it. I thought foul problems were mainly a product of players having lower comparative Ath & Def #s (which would explain Crispin & Yang's PF issues), but it doesn't always work out like that. For example, this season on my Menlo team in Phelan, I had a PG (Corey Tsan www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx) who was 62 Ath, 79, Spd, & 58 Def, but still averaged 3.7 PFs a game and fouled out of almost every game against quality opponents (sometimes fairly quickly). I had no explanation as to why this was happening or how to stop it. 

Any advice regarding how teams are able to create foul trouble for specific players on their opponent's team and how to combat that strategy would be welcome. 

IMHO.... some of HD is very much like the real game of basketball..... and some of it is just numbers and may not be like the real game at all.
I'm not as convinced as some are, that good coaches can get anyone into foul trouble unless you help them some. 
I don't believe game planning is totally useless, but I don't think it does nearly as much as a lot of folks in HD think.
If you put a couple guys in the game and just play them to death... it doesn't matter whether the other coach attacks them or not... they are going to commit fouls and they are also going to shoot poorly as a general rule. I looked through the PBP of the first game. (I know you have made some changes since then), however. one of those guards plays like the first 11 minutes of the game.... running a press. There isn't a player in HD at any level who is capable of playing 10-11 straight minutes without falling apart. One of your back-ups can handle the ball well for D3. The other plays D better than the other 3, and isn't totally inept at holding onto the ball.
Pac Luthern has the talent to probably beat about any D3 team... if the RNG works out right for them. But I don't see them winning 5-6 games in a row in the NT unless you optimize your players abilities. That means at least 10 players.... not 2.
Those 2 guys are pretty good. Figuring out how to keep them in the game and performing at a high level is your task.
A guy with 93 Stamina should play more than 20 minutes.... but he can't play them in a row.... not in HD.
Look at the teams making the final-4 every year. In D3 they're gonna probably be a press team... and they won't have 2 guys scoring 20 while the rest score 3.
It's easy to get several upperclassmen together and run press and make a run every 2-3 seasons. Look at the ones who are there 3 out of 4 seasons. Chances are they are looking at a bigger picture. Balance is your friend.
I'm not saying those two should be scoring 10.... they are too good for that. But keeping them fresher might keep them in the game longer. They may still both average 20.... but they might play 25+ quality minutes and stop sitting beside you on the bench.
Good players make the rest of the team better. 

When a 60 ATH player is covered by a 40 ATH player, fouls are gonna happen....

Thanks for the input mizzou77. I hadn't noticed that about Yang playing 11 consecutive minutes until you pointed it out. I was trying to set it up as a 3 player rotation to cover most of the 80 guard minutes, but that obviously didn't work out very well. Was hoping for more development, especially in offense ratings, from my Jrs & Sophs to compliment Crispin & Yang this season, but low overall WE for that group has delayed their progress. Should have some other reasonable offensive threats by the end of the season. Not sure if it will be enough to get us a deep run into the NT though. Our low overall Ath, Spd, & Def will be difficult to overcome against the better teams. Don't feel like I've recruited all that well for Pacific Lutheran the last couple seasons. There is very little room for error if you want to have a Final Four level team. 

scaturo - That's why I don't like seeing all the 70+ Ath players on your Phelan Lewis & Clark team. Lol