Let me preface this by saying this isn't a complaint, rather a curiosity I'm hoping someone can explain...

So the brackets came out for the Rupp NT last night and I received a 10 seed as the No. 27 team on the Projection Report.

Obviously we had a strong year in the University and I'm sitting behind a bunch of teams from the conference, so it's perfectly understandable that my Projection Report spot doesn't jibe with my actual seed. No problem there, fully expected that might be the case.

My question though is how did I get bumped from a 7 to a 10 seed when Sewanee, the No. 29 team in the Projection Report is sitting at the No. 7 seed in a region? My understanding has always been that the Projection Report is THE ranking the brackets go on, so any pairing that allows Sewanee onto the bracket would similarly allow my school to fit in the same position since we're from the same league. And with the higher Projection Report ranking, shouldn't I be first in line for the slot? Or am I mistaken about the Projection Report, in which case Sewanee's SOS and RPI would explain the difference?

Ultimately, it doesn't matter -- I'm still in a 7 v. 10 pairing and I still have to win 6 games to take home a title. I'm just confused how I got jumped for positioning on the bracket if the Projection Report is the definitive guide to postseason seeding.

if your conference set a lot of nt teams you probably got bumbped down to avoid as many early university matcjups

Posted by the0nlyis on 4/30/2016 10:44:00 AM (view original):
if your conference set a lot of nt teams you probably got bumbped down to avoid as many early university matcjups

Right, but why was my team the one that was bumped rather than Sewanee, which is below me on the Projection Report? If their 7 seed is a "safe" location for a University team to be, then shouldn't that be where my team gets placed on the bracket since I am the higher rated University squad according to the final Projection Report?

I'm just trying to figure out the logic that allows a team ranked below me, albeit only two places below me, to leapfrog me when it comes to seeding on the bracket.

That actually contradicts what I thought I knew about the seeding algorithm. I'd send a ticket.

Actually, I know exactly what happened. It's glitchy as hell, but I know what happened.

You were the 8th University team in the PR, which means you cannot be placed in a region where you meet another University team before the Elite Eight. So you got bumped down. But Sewanee was the 9th University team, which means they could not be placed in a region where they met another University team before the Sweet Sixteen. So they got stuck in a spot where you were ineligible (in a region where they can meet Rhodes in the Sweet Sixteen), because the algorithm still treated them by the 9th rules even after you dropped below them. You were still treated as the 8th University team and dropped three seed lines until you got to a place where there was no other University team in your half-region.

It's a glitch. They probably can't fix it, because I'm guessing the coding is pretty complicated and the glitch is buried in there, but that's exactly what happened. I'd send a ticket anyways though.

Posted by tarvolon on 4/30/2016 2:13:00 PM (view original):
Actually, I know exactly what happened. It's glitchy as hell, but I know what happened.

You were the 8th University team in the PR, which means you cannot be placed in a region where you meet another University team before the Elite Eight. So you got bumped down. But Sewanee was the 9th University team, which means they could not be placed in a region where they met another University team before the Sweet Sixteen. So they got stuck in a spot where you were ineligible (in a region where they can meet Rhodes in the Sweet Sixteen), because the algorithm still treated them by the 9th rules even after you dropped below them. You were still treated as the 8th University team and dropped three seed lines until you got to a place where there was no other University team in your half-region.

It's a glitch. They probably can't fix it, because I'm guessing the coding is pretty complicated and the glitch is buried in there, but that's exactly what happened. I'd send a ticket anyways though.

i agree, this is intended, albeit strange, behavior.

the cost of coding around strange edge cases like this (and there's a few of them) is pretty high, and IMO, generally not worth it given the situation staffing wise. seble is aware these kind of strange situations exist and i don't think he has any intention to address them - which i actually agree with. it does seem dumb that you can get placed below your conf mate, but you are seeded 1 by 1, with no concern to the rest of what is happening - to keep things simple. it works pretty well the vast majority of the time, and so i don't think its worth it to spent a bunch of time fixing the 10 little problems that make up the 1% of cases that are goofy like this.

also, its worth us all keeping in mind that seble showing us the S curve is basically a gift. if we couldn't see it like before, we probably wouldn't think twice about something like this. most algorithms are imperfect, and usually we don't get the visibility to really see those imperfections with such clarity. just because we do get to see, doesn't mean we should raise the bar on what an acceptable algorithm is. i think overall, NT seeding is actually pretty strong in this game, its by far the best ranking algorithm anywhere in HD. basically, what im saying is, i don't think the problem here is the algorithm - its just that we get more visibility into the results of the algorithm, than would typically be the case - and so we are seeing little problems we'd otherwise miss. but, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong here.

On the bright side, you have a worse 2-seed (according to the PR), and Sewanee's 3-seed is a team that went 4-0 against you two this year, and yours is one that actually lost to Sewanee. I think both of you should be able to get out of the 7/10 matchup, although Willie Pat is no pushover

Posted by tarvolon on 4/30/2016 2:13:00 PM (view original):
Actually, I know exactly what happened. It's glitchy as hell, but I know what happened.

You were the 8th University team in the PR, which means you cannot be placed in a region where you meet another University team before the Elite Eight. So you got bumped down. But Sewanee was the 9th University team, which means they could not be placed in a region where they met another University team before the Sweet Sixteen. So they got stuck in a spot where you were ineligible (in a region where they can meet Rhodes in the Sweet Sixteen), because the algorithm still treated them by the 9th rules even after you dropped below them. You were still treated as the 8th University team and dropped three seed lines until you got to a place where there was no other University team in your half-region.

It's a glitch. They probably can't fix it, because I'm guessing the coding is pretty complicated and the glitch is buried in there, but that's exactly what happened. I'd send a ticket anyways though.

This makes complete sense from a computer logic standpoint now when I see it laid out this way. It was just really baffling looking at it from the standpoint of the projection report.

And gillespie is right, if the PR wasn't right there, this wouldn't have even been a pause for consideration given the RPI/SOS of the teams involved.

Like I said, it really makes no difference to me outside of a "I'd like to understand how the heck this happened" sort of thing. Gotta win six games to win the title (and we won't...I harbor no illusions here). I just wasn't viewing the situation from the strict logic standpoint of a computer system. Thanks guys!!