Posted by cubcub113 on 12/6/2017 12:15:00 PM (view original):
LP in guards is insanely valuable. This guy played against 6 SOS DI, with B+ IQ and still shot 12 PPG and 53%. As a freshman, he got 8 PPG shooting well. Singlehandedly got me to Sweet 16 as a FRESHMAN carrying the bench unit at the 2 (14 points on 6-8 shooting or something).

I can also attest to this. Because I lost some recruiting battles, I didn't have a true PG on my roster, so I had to move my SF to PG.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Stats.aspx?pid=3703124

He was 2 time conference player of the year, led us to two NCAA tournaments and gave opposing teams headaches (tho, he struggled against press teams, which isn't unexpected).

I assume that's where i look at this wrong. I would view inside scoring guards, guards that can penetrate well, as having amazing athleticism. Not LP. When I think LP for a guard, i picture Jordan down on the block, backing down his defender. Not a lot of guards do that at all.

I guess where I'm wrong, is that LP represents inside scoring in general. Not just..... down on the block, Low "Posting up"

LP based guards do well because they generally all ready have strong values in speed, BH, ath and some perimeter. Plus they are opposed by defenders who generally have lower ATH and BLK.

Posted by grimacedance on 12/6/2017 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all2matt on 12/5/2017 10:52:00 PM (view original):
Don’t fall too deep into the trap of what the attributes say, I’m a big fan of adjusting by conf time to what is actually happening. I’ve had quite a few studs not perform and duds more than pull there weight. Sometimes the chemistry of all your players attributes together make things just work. Basically don’t be scared to adjust to see what happens.

One million percent agree with this.

This works better when you don't play sims. If you end up with a lot of sims on your schedule some of those #'s get inflated. Bad defenses help mediocre scorers more than good scorers.

I think jitter_thug was looking for a raw formula to just throw a players ratings into and have it spit out a number/rating that determines how good of a scorer a player is.

But I think there are just too many variables to really have an accurate formula. Different positions/offenses change things dramatically. But maybe having this raw formula could be a good jumping off point. I might try and throw something together and get everyone's feedback. Or someone else might already have something much better than what I can come up with, I learn something new about this game everyday lol.

Quote: " As a general rule, I think 3 point shooting is something like 45% PER, 25% Speed, 20% BH, 10% ATH. There are other factors (team pass, offensive type, defensive players, defensive set, and defensive setting) but these are the individual players baseline. I use the above formula as a baseline but I think I undervalue PER a little in it." - Trentonjoe

I used that formula for SPD/PER guys

For ATH/LP guys

I do some like 45 LP 25 ATH 10 SPD 10 BH 10 PER

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/6/2017 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Quote: " As a general rule, I think 3 point shooting is something like 45% PER, 25% Speed, 20% BH, 10% ATH. There are other factors (team pass, offensive type, defensive players, defensive set, and defensive setting) but these are the individual players baseline. I use the above formula as a baseline but I think I undervalue PER a little in it." - Trentonjoe

I used that formula for SPD/PER guys

For ATH/LP guys

I do some like 45 LP 25 ATH 10 SPD 10 BH 10 PER

Ok thank you very much joe, I'll keep these in mind.

Thanks for all the info guys! I appreciate it

TJ and I have had a few discussions in the forums about what attributes we think help do what. He's a very, very knowledgeable coach. I wouldn't disagree with anything he posted in this thread although we do have some subtle differences of opinion. But for the most part, what TJ has posted is very valuable information, especially for newer coaches.

This reminds me of way back when, when I first joined. When the forums were actually used to discuss all different things HD. When veteran coaches had no issue voicing their opinions or providing invaluable feedback to the new/newer coaches. When you could learn a ton just by reading through random threads. Now, now not so much. Threads tend to be dominated by a handful of users who snipe at each other back and forth and a piece of good info is as rare as an honest politician.

Anyway, back on track. Good info from TJ. His record speaks for itself.

The only thing I'd add is that I see a lot of coaches who think that if their player's Per rating isn't like 85+, then they shouldn't be shooting threes. It's really not that simple. I've had players who were very effective three point shooters with ratings in the mid to high 50's but they have to be put into the correct situations (and of course, have to have the corresponding ratings to be able to help out that marginal Per rating).

This reminds me of way back when, when I first joined. When the forums were actually used to discuss all different things HD. When veteran coaches had no issue voicing their opinions or providing invaluable feedback to the new/newer coaches. When you could learn a ton just by reading through random threads. Now, now not so much. Threads tend to be dominated by a handful of users who snipe at each other back and forth and a piece of good info is as rare as an honest politician.


If you want to add something, add it. This nonsense is just passive-aggressive sniping.

dont let formulae take control

grab the best players you can get - aim for the formula but if a really strong player who doesnt fit the formula is available, go for it

and then watch performance and adjust - BUT take into account the context of the performance

a guy who scores great as third on your depth chart in a nonconf schedule against bad SIMs might not perform in the same way against good opponents