Thinking about switching from Zone to HCP/Zone this season. I'd move minutes around where I'm committing an extra 10 practice minutes on defense, but has anyone used this over a long period of time? Is the juice worth the squeeze?

I did it for a number of seasons because I loved the flexibility it created defensively -- I could run a straight press in some games, straight zone in others, or do the half court thing. Stopped doing it because I felt the speedier player development and ability to push defensive IQ's to the A/A+ range faster was doing me more good in the long run. That said, I've known other coaches who have been very successful running HCP/zone or HCP/man schemes.

I've been running zone/press at Hawaii for several seasons. As rednu said, I like the flexibility. This is true both during the season and from season to season. I have a tough recruiting or EE cycle and have to play with a limited roster, we can just play zone or mostly zone. During seasons when we have good depth, we can run more combo. Even when the roster is thin, devoting 5-10 minutes to press practice will make it potentially available the following season.

It does cost practice time, but there are some upsides.

I used to run it exclusively, but I dont know, I dont feel like I ever really gained advantages from it. Shoe runs it alot so he would have some good insight.

I know Im probably insane for thinking this, but in all honesty after having switched my UNLV team from Press, to Zone, to HCP/Zone, back to Press, and now finally to an M2M defense....I really think talent trumps the defense. I mean sometimes if you have weak defenders the press or zone can help you, but if you ever really want to get elite you need elite defenders, and most of the time elite defenders will make whatever defense you run, elite...assuming their IQs are up to snuff.

at least in terms of my experience, talent surely matters more than scheme

BUT, scheme can change what you need to emphasize in terms of talent and how the talent fits together.

On the other hand, give me 8 outstanding players, give them okay IQs in any system you pick and you take 8 okay but not great players and pick your system - I'll run with the talent

Posted by fd343ny on 8/29/2018 6:14:00 PM (view original):
at least in terms of my experience, talent surely matters more than scheme

BUT, scheme can change what you need to emphasize in terms of talent and how the talent fits together.

On the other hand, give me 8 outstanding players, give them okay IQs in any system you pick and you take 8 okay but not great players and pick your system - I'll run with the talent

Right, thats kind of what I was getting at, that you would take the 8 outstanding players every time. You are also right in that you do need to match up the talent with your scheme, but even then if you have a stud player, he'll be fine in any scheme you put him in.

Definitely an interesting idea. From an opponent's perspective it could make it slightly harder to gameplan for you because you would need to ensure you have enough BH/P to break the press. Although, those are also helpful attributes to start against a zone as well. But could be a bit of a headache in some instances.

From your side, the flexibility to run full zone or full press could come in handy and the classic HCP/Zone should keep your stamina levels normal as players use more on a press and less on a zone. In general though, I'll never stop believing that M2M is the best defense. It actually allows you to coach. Play matchups. Match strength on strength. I love when I play pressing teams because they blindly double-team my offensive scrubs with the same vigor they do my leading scorers. Zone can provide greater flexibility but I think it can also leave you vulnerable against top-talent teams.

I'm probably biased but if you switch your defense, I'd switch it to man. Or HCP/Man. I think pressing teams get misled because they obliterate below average teams or maybe beat some teams they shouldn't because of the gimmick. But I think the only reason to play is to put your team in position to have a 6-game winning streak at the end and in those scenarios, running a press is a bold move. You're eventually going to run into a team with good athletes who can score, handle the ball and pass and then you're toast. At least in my experience. I'm not sure I've ever seen a pressing team win a title in D2 Iba.

Also siphoning those 10 extra minutes to practice an additional defense is rough. I always wish I had more points for player development so stealing 10 minutes so guys can be a B+ their senior year...I dunno...tough call. Not saying it's wrong. Just throwing in my 2 cents cuz this is an interesting topic and something I revisit from time to time in my mind.

I run HCP/zone because it’s fun for me, not because it has any special superpowers. I have a D3 championship running man, and three D2 championships running press. None yet with zone or HCP/zone, though I’ve got 3 E8s, 2 F4s, and a title game appearance in D1 with 3 separate teams. You can build a championship caliber HCP/zone team, but it will work best if you like (and are regularly available for) gameplanning, and can fully utilize its flexibility.

I don’t worry about the extra 10 minutes for the HCP. Putting a few extra TOV per game in your back pocket is a decent trade off for not maxing all non-cores, or not getting your primaries up to A+ until late in the senior year for your average WE/GPA player.

the combo also makes it possible to some amusing _ i dont know whether they are effective - things within games

you can run halfcourt press in basic game plan but switch to press if down by 5 or more with 3 minutes left - somewhat like real life

Posted by fd343ny on 8/30/2018 9:00:00 PM (view original):
the combo also makes it possible to some amusing _ i dont know whether they are effective - things within games

you can run halfcourt press in basic game plan but switch to press if down by 5 or more with 3 minutes left - somewhat like real life

I did that frequently when I ran HCP/zone. I would also switch exclusively to a 3-2 when ahead late in an effort to counter the insanity of the quick shot offense.

The flexibility is what I'm most interested in. I took over Georgia in Knight and the SEC has so much talent that I'll need any edge I can get. One of the reasons I've avoided using FCP to this point is concerns about getting into foul trouble late in games that I've got a pretty good handle on. I'm much better at gameplanning than I am recruiting, so hoping the switch can tilt a few borderline games per season in my favor.

I have been running HCP/ZONE for years on my teams and love the flexibility. Yields more turnovers than a straight zone and neutralizes perimeter/inside offensive focus better than a press. In my experience you need to dedicate a minimum of 56 minutes to team practice (I usually run 20 Off, 20 Zone, 16-18 press depending on the age of my team) in order to get the defensive IQ high enough to make it worthwhile. I tried running 20/20/10 for a while and the press IQ never got above a B/B- (for SR's, much lower for underclassmen) making the press a disadvantage compared to straight zone, and I also played with 20/15/15 but neither defensive IQ got high enough to compete with the best teams. 20/20/16 seems to be the magic number for minimum practice time to make it effective.