Zone Fouling Question Topic

Example.

Center X and PF Y have exactly the same ratings.

What will cause Center X to pick up more fouls.

2-3 Zone?
3-2 Zone?
Both the same?

1/19/2019 7:30 PM
In a 2-3, the C acts alone against the opposing C. The PF works in tandem with the SF.

In a 3-2, the C and PF work together in a tandem.

So it probably depends on matchups.

1/19/2019 9:20 PM
To add on what tecwrg said.... it could be the SF if you're playing 2-3.

you said they have equal ratings. Say those ratings are 50 in everything. Well if you're playing a 2-3 and your SF is 80s in everything, that would help boost your SF/PF tandem basically. Creating a situation where it seems the C is "worse", and likely fouls more.
1/20/2019 6:32 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 1/19/2019 9:20:00 PM (view original):
In a 2-3, the C acts alone against the opposing C. The PF works in tandem with the SF.

In a 3-2, the C and PF work together in a tandem.

So it probably depends on matchups.

Not exactly. In 2-3, the C has his own formula determining his defensive effectiveness in the zone. The PF and SF have a shared formula, and the PG and SG have a shared formula. I don’t know if this is what you meant, but some folks get the idea that the C is basically playing man against the opposing C, and that isn’t the case; at least that’s not what has been disclosed to us.

My answer to the question is that I haven’t noticed a discernible difference in frontcourt fouling tendencies between 2-3 and 3-2. If you have a guy with low-ish defense and elite rebounding and shot blocking, the best place for that guy is a C in a 2-3. The shot blocking in that position seems to be best utilized there. But as to whether he’ll pick up more fouls, I don’t know. My impression is that zone reduces fouls overall, but sometimes you end up with strange distribution, almost as if a superior defender gets in trouble covering for a guy with lower IQ or less defensive ability. But that’s speculation.
1/20/2019 10:15 AM
I thought the C was down low in BOTH defenses. The only difference is the placement of the SF.

So my answer is the 3-2.
Since
1) the SF is support the guards in the 3-2 and hes supporting the post players in the 2-3
2) the 3-2 causes more shots to be taken down low which puts more pressure on the C/PF
3) the 3-2 is weaker on rebounding so more fouls taken as a result of offensive put backs.
1/20/2019 10:51 AM (edited)
You are also more likely to play a minus defense with a 3-2, which should lead to more fouls.
1/20/2019 12:39 PM
I don’t run the 2-3 much but I can tell you this about the 3-2; the post defender with the lower defensive metic picks up more fouls. In my experience it’s about 25-35% more.
1/20/2019 3:55 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/20/2019 3:55:00 PM (view original):
I don’t run the 2-3 much but I can tell you this about the 3-2; the post defender with the lower defensive metic picks up more fouls. In my experience it’s about 25-35% more.
If there’s a wide difference, this can be true, though not as pronounced as in man or press.

If it’s something less than a wide difference, this really doesn’t hold true from what I’ve seen. Foul distribution in zone over the long term is more even than I’d expect.

ETA - IQ seems to be a bigger difference maker in terms of fouls in zone.
1/20/2019 6:56 PM (edited)
Posted by shoe3 on 1/20/2019 6:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/20/2019 3:55:00 PM (view original):
I don’t run the 2-3 much but I can tell you this about the 3-2; the post defender with the lower defensive metic picks up more fouls. In my experience it’s about 25-35% more.
If there’s a wide difference, this can be true, though not as pronounced as in man or press.

If it’s something less than a wide difference, this really doesn’t hold true from what I’ve seen. Foul distribution in zone over the long term is more even than I’d expect.

ETA - IQ seems to be a bigger difference maker in terms of fouls in zone.
Shoe, ETA means estimated time of arrival, not PSA, public service announcement.
1/20/2019 9:00 PM
"Edited To Add" = ETA
1/20/2019 10:13 PM
Posted by shoe3 on 1/20/2019 6:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/20/2019 3:55:00 PM (view original):
I don’t run the 2-3 much but I can tell you this about the 3-2; the post defender with the lower defensive metic picks up more fouls. In my experience it’s about 25-35% more.
If there’s a wide difference, this can be true, though not as pronounced as in man or press.

If it’s something less than a wide difference, this really doesn’t hold true from what I’ve seen. Foul distribution in zone over the long term is more even than I’d expect.

ETA - IQ seems to be a bigger difference maker in terms of fouls in zone.
I don’t what the rate is for press or man but I stand by my numbers.
1/21/2019 1:41 PM
I could probably search for this somewhere, but I'll just ask here since it's somewhat relevant...

What attribute correlates most to foul percentage? I know that post defenders need ath/def and perimeter denfenders need spd/def, but iveI noticed that guards with low ath seem to foul more. This was also in a press defense so that might explain the need for athleticism. But in a zone, is it a combination of attributes, and if so, do some weigh more than others (ath/spd versus def)? Let's assume IQ is equal.
1/22/2019 1:17 AM
Press is definitely ath for guards, probably for posts as well.

For Zone, shoe thinks IQ is really important, and he may be right, but I have found it really is an amalgamation of the core skills (ATH/SPD/DEF for wings and ATH/DEF/BLK for posts) and IQ. In my observations, the player in the zone with the lower composite score is more likely to draw the foul.

The equations I use are:

Wings: DEF 40%, SPD 35% ATH 25%
Posts: DEF 40% ATH 30% BLK 30%
Center (in 2-3): ATH/DEF/BLK 33%
1/22/2019 8:45 AM
Thanks for the info trentonjoe.
1/23/2019 10:25 PM
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