i have may have mistakenly taken part of your message as an objection type of response to mine. im not sure we are saying different things anymore especially after your last post. i definitely agree credit is accumulated, cycle by cycle, and that prestige and preferences are % multipliers that get applied and then the credit gets applied to the total. that is sort of the part i was saying i couldn't see any other way it would work (not so much the % part, but that credit was accumulated over time with preference advantages applied at cycle time - and therefore that it would make no sense for a promise to retroactively apply to credit put in before hand).

seble does take off the credit after the fact if you pull a promise, supposedly, but im not sure exactly how that works - i suspect he attempts to track the advantage along the way (from the promises preference) and then undo those - or maybe he just applies a big negative that he is sure will cover it. what i was saying i thought made zero sense, specifically, was a reference to the OP where fdny says he figures you get more effort for effort done after a promise, when there is a promise preference. i feel like that has to be true - that the promise preference works as a multiplier that is calculated like any other preference or prestige, if it is present, each cycle. as in, not something that is or can be applied retroactively. just like if your prestige changes through recruiting (which happens basically 100% of the time between cycle 1 and 2, at a minimum, not sure about EE changes), there is almost zero chance that change is retroactive. that is what i was trying to say.

so, let me step back and ask a question instead - anything i was saying that you are taking objection to?

So let's say I have a mid major that has a big boost in prestige between cycle 1 and 2. Does that mean only recruiting effort on a late signee in cycle 2 will have the better prestige modifier?

If that is the case, and I'm in a rebuild where I can predict a prestige boost from one season to the next, does it make any sense to spend HVs and CVs in cycle 1 on a signee with late preference?

Posted by Basketts on 8/1/2019 4:12:00 PM (view original):
So let's say I have a mid major that has a big boost in prestige between cycle 1 and 2. Does that mean only recruiting effort on a late signee in cycle 2 will have the better prestige modifier?

If that is the case, and I'm in a rebuild where I can predict a prestige boost from one season to the next, does it make any sense to spend HVs and CVs in cycle 1 on a signee with late preference?

i believe this is correct, 95% sure.

its specifically the act of the system allowing the retroactive application of a change in a % modifier on effort (in this case, prestige - but i look at this exactly the same for preferences) that i find unbelievable and unpalatable - on a general basis. i know seble did something along those lines for undoing promises, but i really think that is basically hacked in to a much simpler system where every cycle you get your effort times your multipliers (prestige and preferences) added to a running total.

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/31/2019 10:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/31/2019 1:15:00 PM (view original):
i agree with oldwarrior and shoe, and i think i read that is how it worked in that guide chapel put together. but it logically seems like it almost has to work that way. i can't imagine putting a promise on, then having the game go back through to up the effort on all this random stuff you did previously. and then have to go take that off if you remove the promise. seems like the benefit of preferences and prestige would be applied in real time - you do a HV, its worth 10 points, you have preferences so its 12, you have prestige so its 15 - 15 gets added to your total, and that is the end of it. something like that at least. otherwise it would get too complicated, i just cant imagine it being done another way from a software development standpoint.

I've always looked at it similar to this. But I've viewed AP in a different manner too. For a simple demonstration, I'll say that a standard AP is worth 1. For every very good preference add a ".2". For a wants to play promise, add another .2 for receiving an additional very good. (Very bads would work the same just backwards, a -.2).

So if you have 3 very goods and no very bads, your AP would be worth 1.6 each. Where as your opponent, say he has 2 very goods so his AP are worth 1.4 each. With stockpiled effort, that's where the separation would come in and show the weighted value of how preferences become important.

And the reason it's best to offer promises early, is because getting that additional very good preference, would give you a +.2 on every AP you offer. And if you do it late, the extra .2 is not added to your early AP that you accumulated with that recruit before the promise was offered.

Again, my .2 is just an example. So if some of you think that's way too high or way too low of value, that's fine. I don't really have an idea of the value. This was just a random number i made up.

preferences are definitely a multiplier like budda said not added on just FYI. not that it matters all that much in most cases, if you have a couple preferences your way, and its 1 * 1.2 * 1.2 instead of 1 + 1.2 + 1.2, its only 1.44 vs 1.4 which is basically a wash. it only really is a lot different when you have a lot of preferences going one way, like if you had 5 very bads, 1 / (1.2^5) is .4 where 1 - (.2 * 5) is 0. so there that would be a lot different.

I think we're saying the same thing gil, so I'm fairly certain in we're in agreement in how things work.

Observations by some coaches in 3.0 claim that prestige changes do NOT affect whatever your prestige multiplier is doing though between RS1 and RS2. (i.e. someone ups his prestige to A+ due to a great NT run and then battle for a recruit and it seems to them they didn't get the benefit of the new prestige but was still using the older prestige multiplier). Since I've only ever been a high A+, I never have my own experience with that...

Posted by buddhagamer on 8/1/2019 9:27:00 PM (view original):
I think we're saying the same thing gil, so I'm fairly certain in we're in agreement in how things work.

Observations by some coaches in 3.0 claim that prestige changes do NOT affect whatever your prestige multiplier is doing though between RS1 and RS2. (i.e. someone ups his prestige to A+ due to a great NT run and then battle for a recruit and it seems to them they didn't get the benefit of the new prestige but was still using the older prestige multiplier). Since I've only ever been a high A+, I never have my own experience with that...

ok cool, sorry for the miscommunication. once i read your second post and was like... i agree with 100% of that, and even further thought i just said most of it myself - i realized something must be up!

anyway, that is interesting about session 1 and 2. i suppose there is no reason the new prestige has to be used, but seems like it should be. i've been wondering when EE boost comes into play, but now you make me realize im just assuming about prestige changes for the season too. i sort of would guess seble would straight up answer a question like that. does he do support for HD again now that he's back? i just learned he's back recently, that is pretty cool.

wow, someone should have posted your 3peat and 5/6 at ucla phelans on that thread about incredible runs. that is pretty killer.

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/1/2019 10:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 8/1/2019 9:27:00 PM (view original):
I think we're saying the same thing gil, so I'm fairly certain in we're in agreement in how things work.

Observations by some coaches in 3.0 claim that prestige changes do NOT affect whatever your prestige multiplier is doing though between RS1 and RS2. (i.e. someone ups his prestige to A+ due to a great NT run and then battle for a recruit and it seems to them they didn't get the benefit of the new prestige but was still using the older prestige multiplier). Since I've only ever been a high A+, I never have my own experience with that...

ok cool, sorry for the miscommunication. once i read your second post and was like... i agree with 100% of that, and even further thought i just said most of it myself - i realized something must be up!

anyway, that is interesting about session 1 and 2. i suppose there is no reason the new prestige has to be used, but seems like it should be. i've been wondering when EE boost comes into play, but now you make me realize im just assuming about prestige changes for the season too. i sort of would guess seble would straight up answer a question like that. does he do support for HD again now that he's back? i just learned he's back recently, that is pretty cool.

That's what makes dealing with EEs just so much harder than it was in 2.0. You don't even get the prestige bump until after RS2 is over so trying to replace them is just so much harder. Just wait until you have only 1 opening and 4/5 guys appear on the big board...

Congrats on the repeat @ UConn in Tark (which is a 3 peat for the school). Great coaches will win regardless of the system in play.

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/1/2019 10:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 8/1/2019 9:27:00 PM (view original):
I think we're saying the same thing gil, so I'm fairly certain in we're in agreement in how things work.

Observations by some coaches in 3.0 claim that prestige changes do NOT affect whatever your prestige multiplier is doing though between RS1 and RS2. (i.e. someone ups his prestige to A+ due to a great NT run and then battle for a recruit and it seems to them they didn't get the benefit of the new prestige but was still using the older prestige multiplier). Since I've only ever been a high A+, I never have my own experience with that...

ok cool, sorry for the miscommunication. once i read your second post and was like... i agree with 100% of that, and even further thought i just said most of it myself - i realized something must be up!

anyway, that is interesting about session 1 and 2. i suppose there is no reason the new prestige has to be used, but seems like it should be. i've been wondering when EE boost comes into play, but now you make me realize im just assuming about prestige changes for the season too. i sort of would guess seble would straight up answer a question like that. does he do support for HD again now that he's back? i just learned he's back recently, that is pretty cool.

I'm pretty sure it does take into account 2nd session prestige. Seble said it does and no one has really shared compelling evidence that it doesn't.

Posted by darnoc29099 on 8/2/2019 7:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/1/2019 11:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/1/2019 10:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 8/1/2019 9:27:00 PM (view original):
I think we're saying the same thing gil, so I'm fairly certain in we're in agreement in how things work.

Observations by some coaches in 3.0 claim that prestige changes do NOT affect whatever your prestige multiplier is doing though between RS1 and RS2. (i.e. someone ups his prestige to A+ due to a great NT run and then battle for a recruit and it seems to them they didn't get the benefit of the new prestige but was still using the older prestige multiplier). Since I've only ever been a high A+, I never have my own experience with that...

ok cool, sorry for the miscommunication. once i read your second post and was like... i agree with 100% of that, and even further thought i just said most of it myself - i realized something must be up!

anyway, that is interesting about session 1 and 2. i suppose there is no reason the new prestige has to be used, but seems like it should be. i've been wondering when EE boost comes into play, but now you make me realize im just assuming about prestige changes for the season too. i sort of would guess seble would straight up answer a question like that. does he do support for HD again now that he's back? i just learned he's back recently, that is pretty cool.

I'm pretty sure it does take into account 2nd session prestige. Seble said it does and no one has really shared compelling evidence that it doesn't.

I've been a doubter about 2nd session prestige taking effect. The best example I had was at D1 another school and I were both B prestige in session 1. The recruit in question had ZERO preferences. In RS1 we applied virtually the same number of APs and both schools offered a schollie, nothing else. In RS2, my prestige went up to B+ and his down to B-. In RS2 we both went all in (start, 25 minutes, 20 HVs, CV). In the end the percentages were him favored 52/48. The only difference was the number of APs, which was something like 980 to 950 (I don't even remember who had more). If my higher prestige had carried the weight of my prestige in RS2 my HVs, CVs, and promises should have had enough weight to give me some sort of advantage in final effort.

Hmm that is pretty compelling. Did you send in a ticket or anything?

Posted by darnoc29099 on 8/2/2019 7:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 8/1/2019 11:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 8/1/2019 10:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 8/1/2019 9:27:00 PM (view original):
I think we're saying the same thing gil, so I'm fairly certain in we're in agreement in how things work.

Observations by some coaches in 3.0 claim that prestige changes do NOT affect whatever your prestige multiplier is doing though between RS1 and RS2. (i.e. someone ups his prestige to A+ due to a great NT run and then battle for a recruit and it seems to them they didn't get the benefit of the new prestige but was still using the older prestige multiplier). Since I've only ever been a high A+, I never have my own experience with that...

ok cool, sorry for the miscommunication. once i read your second post and was like... i agree with 100% of that, and even further thought i just said most of it myself - i realized something must be up!

anyway, that is interesting about session 1 and 2. i suppose there is no reason the new prestige has to be used, but seems like it should be. i've been wondering when EE boost comes into play, but now you make me realize im just assuming about prestige changes for the season too. i sort of would guess seble would straight up answer a question like that. does he do support for HD again now that he's back? i just learned he's back recently, that is pretty cool.

I'm pretty sure it does take into account 2nd session prestige. Seble said it does and no one has really shared compelling evidence that it doesn't.

I've been a doubter about 2nd session prestige taking effect. The best example I had was at D1 another school and I were both B prestige in session 1. The recruit in question had ZERO preferences. In RS1 we applied virtually the same number of APs and both schools offered a schollie, nothing else. In RS2, my prestige went up to B+ and his down to B-. In RS2 we both went all in (start, 25 minutes, 20 HVs, CV). In the end the percentages were him favored 52/48. The only difference was the number of APs, which was something like 980 to 950 (I don't even remember who had more). If my higher prestige had carried the weight of my prestige in RS2 my HVs, CVs, and promises should have had enough weight to give me some sort of advantage in final effort.

I've been a doubter of this also

I’ve had other examples like the one I posted that just didn’t pass the eye test but the one I mentioned was the most extreme one I’ve come across. I didn’t send in a ticket though-this was less than a year after 3.0 rolled out and I remembered I just didn’t care enough to ask CS.