Posted by mullycj on 10/7/2019 10:13:00 PM (view original):
sims don’t do home or campus visits. How they recruit is different than humans. You can’t draw a parallel. This is per seble from a few years ago.

are you sure that's not pre-3.0? i know in the olden days, sims were apples to oranges on recruiting like you said. they didn't even use money.

but these guys are saying you can actually see sims using normal efforts when you switch schools and pull up the history - which doesn't track with my understanding of how things would work, if the sim efforts from 2.0 were just carried forward. im guessing seble had to change that up to be compatible with 3.0 and he must have at least partially converted sims to operating in more human-like ways? i think he even explicitly said he was doing that for distance stuff (old sims were distance agnostic, they recruited guys from all over at no distance penalty).

Posted by gillispie1 on 10/8/2019 11:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 10/7/2019 10:13:00 PM (view original):
sims don’t do home or campus visits. How they recruit is different than humans. You can’t draw a parallel. This is per seble from a few years ago.

are you sure that's not pre-3.0? i know in the olden days, sims were apples to oranges on recruiting like you said. they didn't even use money.

but these guys are saying you can actually see sims using normal efforts when you switch schools and pull up the history - which doesn't track with my understanding of how things would work, if the sim efforts from 2.0 were just carried forward. im guessing seble had to change that up to be compatible with 3.0 and he must have at least partially converted sims to operating in more human-like ways? i think he even explicitly said he was doing that for distance stuff (old sims were distance agnostic, they recruited guys from all over at no distance penalty).

I’ve had 7-8 job changes in 3.0, and looked at dozens of sim-recruited players, to try to understand how sims recruit. I’ve never seen a visit, it’s only ever been AP and scholarships. That doesn’t mean they *don’t* do visits, of course, ultimately my sample size is still very small. I am pretty confident in saying that *if* they do visits, they are very limited, and very late in the process.

FWIW, I do recall seble explicitly saying sims do not use promises. I don’t recall him mentioning visits during beta. Doesn’t mean he didn’t say it, I just know I didn’t see it, because I came out of beta with that question on my mind, and I’ve made a point to look for an instance.

Posted by shoe3 on 10/7/2019 10:27:00 PM (view original):
“If I don't add more visits, and use only AP the next cycle, the sim will jump back up in one cycle. As far up as very high again, depending on the situation. 27ish AP from a D prestige, D1 sim wouldn't make them jump 4 levels. Not against an A+ D2 school that has visits and promises offered. That would be ridiculous in my opinion.”

Not so ridiculous, really. Remember, when you’re moderate in the first session (as D2) and the D1 sim is high or even very high, they are not necessarily in the effort credit lead (definitely not in the lead if they’re just high). They are just in range. They haven’t leap frogged over you, you’re just seeing the power of D1 attention, and the effect of the red light. I think folks tend to underestimate how much more valuable a D1 AP is than a D2. It’s significant, especially if the preference profile is positive. Early in the battle, 27 AP could absolutely put a D1 team back in range against your 3 visits and promises, if some other conditions are right. Not a stretch at all, IMO.

I disagree with this more than anything we've ever discussed.

I agree that the sim isn't necessarily "jumping ahead of me". And I fully understand how the moderate cap at D2 works. But if sim is low, and I'm listed at moderate, I'm actually the very high team at that moment. There's absolutely no way that 27 AP from a D- sim, knocks me down from very high. I'm a very strong A+. I've never lost my A+ once I get there, at any of my teams.

Also, when i say no effort, I mean no visits or promises. Chances are I could have some AP. (I always have at least 1 AP on every player I'm targeting. Because I use the "current attention" page for all of recruiting after the first day).

So let's say sim Jumps back up to very high, and my artificial moderate is actually very high as well...... then that means a difference in 26 AP (27 to 1 in this example) moves sim up 3 levels. You're telling me that 9 AP from a sim is enough to move up one level against an A+ D2 that has visits invested already? That's crazy. You play D2. And you are solid at this game. You should know that 9 AP is not that strong in this case.

Now, I think maybe it was mully that said sim recruiting doesn't parallel with human recruiting. And that they don't visits.... i can buy that. That makes perfect sense. But the value of AP is not super human. (I realize preferences play a factor. But let's assume I'm not recruiting a player that has all very bad for me while sim would have all very goods. I would never be in that situation)

“You're telling me that 9 AP from a sim is enough to move up one level against an A+ D2 that has visits invested already?”

No, that isn’t what I’m telling you. It might be enough in some cases, if the lower division leader hasn’t amassed enough effort credit to hold them down. It certainly isn’t a blanket statement - the more AP and visits the effort credit leader has, the less effect a single cycle of D1 sim attention will have.

If you have 500 APs and 3 visits, then no, a 27 AP cycle from a D1 isn’t going to have that sizable effect.

But if you only have 100 AP and 3 visits, sure it could. Remember, Very Low doesn’t mean 0 effort credit. The boundaries haven’t been disclosed by the developers, but the line between very low and low could be something like 45% of the effort credit of the leader. Could 27 AP be powerful enough to move a D1 sim from 45% of the effort credit amassed to, say 80%? If the lower division effort credit leader doesn’t have a big pile of AP stored up, it sure could. And that is going to show up to you as a sim going from very low to very high in a single cycle.

no G, I’m not 100% sure that’s not 3.0. But I still think it’s the case.

Here you go boneheads

Sounds right Benis. After losing multiple EEs, Tried stealing recruits from Sims in session two and still couldn't get to VH. They had to have more than AP on the guys