One of my players has complained all season -- sent both emails and his WE is down 14. Second session recruiting starts in the morning. If he leaves, when would it be?

Right after the national championship.

Oh. Shoot. Okay, thanks. I can't believe he stayed then. I thought the second email was the death sentence?

I think complaints from players that are already on the team are different from ones you gave promises too.

Posted by thewizard17 on 9/29/2019 8:56:00 PM (view original):
I think complaints from players that are already on the team are different from ones you gave promises too.

agreed. is this a recruit or an existing player you are talking about pallas?

i will say - without question - the 2nd complaint is not a death sentence, even for recruits. its more complicated than that. it definitely depends on when the complaints come in and what you do after they come in. for example, you can 0 a guy out, wait for him to complain, and meet your promise the rest of the way. this means the first 8-10 games, hes sitting - so end of the year, there is 0 chance of you meeting that promised start + 25m (or even 20, probably). so, he'll almost always complain a second time (maybe always), but in the end, won't quit, and will end with some work ethic hit.

Sometimes, if I give a player a 25 minute promise and start him and I have a lot of important non-conference matchups, I might start him 8 of those 10 games and maybe play him 18-20 minutes, this way he only gets a few points off his work ethic, especially a freshman with a low stamina rating. And then usually after the first complaint, I'll try to get him more playing time to make up for it, mostly against weaker teams.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/30/2019 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by thewizard17 on 9/29/2019 8:56:00 PM (view original):
I think complaints from players that are already on the team are different from ones you gave promises too.

agreed. is this a recruit or an existing player you are talking about pallas?

i will say - without question - the 2nd complaint is not a death sentence, even for recruits. its more complicated than that. it definitely depends on when the complaints come in and what you do after they come in. for example, you can 0 a guy out, wait for him to complain, and meet your promise the rest of the way. this means the first 8-10 games, hes sitting - so end of the year, there is 0 chance of you meeting that promised start + 25m (or even 20, probably). so, he'll almost always complain a second time (maybe always), but in the end, won't quit, and will end with some work ethic hit.

It's an existing player. I recruited him, but he's not really doing much for me, so I was hoping to force him out and still get the recruiting resources. He's going into his senior year anyway. Does that play into it? Is it less likely for an older player to transfer than it is for, say, a freshman or sophomore?

I didn't think there was a difference between current players on the roster and incoming freshmen with promises, so thanks for clearing that up.

Posted by pallas on 9/30/2019 4:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/30/2019 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by thewizard17 on 9/29/2019 8:56:00 PM (view original):
I think complaints from players that are already on the team are different from ones you gave promises too.

agreed. is this a recruit or an existing player you are talking about pallas?

i will say - without question - the 2nd complaint is not a death sentence, even for recruits. its more complicated than that. it definitely depends on when the complaints come in and what you do after they come in. for example, you can 0 a guy out, wait for him to complain, and meet your promise the rest of the way. this means the first 8-10 games, hes sitting - so end of the year, there is 0 chance of you meeting that promised start + 25m (or even 20, probably). so, he'll almost always complain a second time (maybe always), but in the end, won't quit, and will end with some work ethic hit.

It's an existing player. I recruited him, but he's not really doing much for me, so I was hoping to force him out and still get the recruiting resources. He's going into his senior year anyway. Does that play into it? Is it less likely for an older player to transfer than it is for, say, a freshman or sophomore?

I didn't think there was a difference between current players on the roster and incoming freshmen with promises, so thanks for clearing that up.

basically, if you substantially violate promises, you are probably losing the guy (100% chance if severe enough). if there are no promises, its a pretty low % chance they'll leave no matter what you do. the long timers here have tried for years to figure out ways to get non-recruits to quit - to no avail. every once in a while you'll get a minor miracle and the guy will quit. i would guess under 5% chance per player.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/30/2019 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by thewizard17 on 9/29/2019 8:56:00 PM (view original):
I think complaints from players that are already on the team are different from ones you gave promises too.

agreed. is this a recruit or an existing player you are talking about pallas?

i will say - without question - the 2nd complaint is not a death sentence, even for recruits. its more complicated than that. it definitely depends on when the complaints come in and what you do after they come in. for example, you can 0 a guy out, wait for him to complain, and meet your promise the rest of the way. this means the first 8-10 games, hes sitting - so end of the year, there is 0 chance of you meeting that promised start + 25m (or even 20, probably). so, he'll almost always complain a second time (maybe always), but in the end, won't quit, and will end with some work ethic hit.

Does anyone know for sure the rules about the 2nd complaint?
I played the dude less during non-conf, but am now exceeding the 15mpg I promised (now averaging over 16 on the season)... but he hasn’t said we are cool after the second complaint.

This is why we need a dropdown set of tools one could use to get a player to quit

- inform player he will not start this year
- inform player he will not start next year
- require player to do team laundry
- date player's girlfriend
etc