jcee - that is a fair assessment and i agree. kinda sounds like hes being an idiot about it, and no matter your tack, that won't go super well. but for the sort of general commenting on these kinds of situation, i stand by my stance - i think the non-idiots will respond better.

cub - it is tricky that way. i think the reality is, there's a real casual enjoyment vs competition trade off here. for casual folks, the idea that any offhand comment can basically cause collusion by say, tipping your hand or preferences, and therefore you can't really talk at all - its just too much! i don't even think its insane for a new coach to get a little help in the vein of what you described above. i think its mostly the competitive folks who really have the obligation to hold a hard line for themselves. there is no way a newer coach is even going to understand, like from an internalized standpoint (as opposed to 20 long timers said it so i believe it), how much little comments made with zero negative intention can tip your hand in ways that are problematic.

this is why i sort of migrated from an anti-collusion warrior in the earlier days, to do a more like... relaxed and understanding view, i suppose. i assumed everyone colluding was doing it intentionally, with a full understanding of the effect on others. experience tells me this isn't true - most people don't want to be cheaters and don't feel like they are cheating. perhaps brushing a gray area. that's why i kind of emphasize trying to in a friendly way, convince folks crossing that line to come over to our side, rather than beating them up about it. if that doesn't work, just send them to seble and wash your hands of it - its just not worth the frustration!

turn him in

Updated- I won the recruit lol

Posted by jcee1281 on 5/30/2020 10:30:00 AM (view original):
Updated- I won the recruit lol

Looks like he came in 3rd which makes this even funnier.

Posted by gillispie1 on 5/16/2020 4:46:00 PM (view original):
jcee, i took it rough when i first got to d1 and started getting collusive sitemails on the regular. you newer folks may not realize this but collusion was not even against the rules for the first major leg of the existence of hd. it got to the point that a couple groups were literally drafting recruits, and eventually enough coaches complained (OR pushed the effort significantly) and tarek (old admin, creator) eventually stepped in (was dragged in??). still, the after-effects took many years to flush through.

here's my advice. delete the post that names the coach, and instead take the opportunity to in a friendly way point the coach to the fair play guidelines and explain that this is collusive behavior and is against the rules. especially newer coaches, its very possible 1) they aren't totally aware, or 2) they sort of know its not allowed but don't have the experience to understand how much it is frowned upon or how much it undermines competition.

this is advice born from experience. when i hit d1, i was so immediately successful, i literally got hit by dozens of theses, in a relatively short period. i've tried all the methods for responding to them, had to put up with a couple idiot cheaters annoying me for 5 years after i named one of them, a year or two after it had happened (i was drunk and the coach in question was getting his named dragged through the mud for the 3rd or so time, and it seemed particularly relevant). god that guy was ******. his idiot friend too. i had coaches i greatly respected reach out too - that was by far the worst.

but, i also got warned for collusion once, as a new coach off a CC post that i would never make today based on my understanding that it is nearly impossible to say *anything* during recruiting that does not reveal even the slightest bit of information. any information reveal can lead to collusion, intentional or not. this is one reason i hate season-long recruiting... at least in the olden days, you could bite your tongue for two days, then let it all out. now its like you still have stupid session 2, its like by the time you could safely talk about it, a month has elapsed and by then you hopefully aren't still hanging on to that crap. but anyway, i learned from that lesson - largely because even though i was shocked when i got a note from the game admins about collusion - they were friendly, and so was everyone else who chimed in - and i learned my lesson on the spot without any bitterness.

anyway, i just kinda learned over time... the best way to help eliminate collusion is to take a firm but friendly stand against it in all these cases. by saying 'screw you cheater', the other guy gets to say 'screw you man, chill' right back. i think by being understanding but also firmly against collusion, it makes it harder for the other guy to write off your take on the situation. it also reduces the drama and bickering. nobody wants to be judged by their worst day, and there's a bunch of reasons that the entire community isn't 100% on the same page as to what is fair play and what isn't, and how much that matters. a non-forum going coach with 15 seasons is a perfect target for this approach, IMO!

additional comment - also probably sharing a private message publicly without the knowledge/consent of the other party gives him an opening to write you off as a ***** and an outlier, not realizing your stance on collusion is shared by the vast majority.

One of my first seasons (while at D3), I sent a sitemail to a well-known coach at a high prestige D1 school who showed up on my top recruit just asking if he was planning to pursue that player. Obviously, I didn't want to waste my time if I was going to get squashed.
I had never heard of fair play guidelines.
That coach took this exact course of action, linking me to the guidelines and explaining that they won't tell me.
And look at me now, I still haven't quit!

TL;DR - gill is absolutely correct.

gil posting is wise -

personally I would respond by pointing him at the guidelines but i would also report it - just so there is a record at support

i would not publicly out the guy unless he persists

Posted by jcee1281 on 5/16/2020 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hulnder on 5/16/2020 11:39:00 AM (view original):
Keep us posted on the results of the battle.

Knowing my luck I’ll lose an in state recruit to a C- NJ school.

People from NJ are wily. Be careful.

I’m in agreement with gill. Better to teach then expose new players. With a second offender it’s a different story though.