that seems like unnecessarily hidden. who has ever read the terms of use of a website? anyone? if i was going to data mine the website i might check to see if they were not allowing that, or something along those lines - but regular use of a site.... i can't imagine there are more than 0.01% of people who would even consider looking at those. also i feel like they used to be bigger for HD? that is so short now.

anyway. so - you say its easy (or at least dilemma free) what that coach would do - but as of yet have offered nothing as far as what that might be. i also see nothing in the FPG that offers guidance to the coach in my scenario - or any similar scenario (finding yourself battling a coach with 2 teams through no fault of your own). care to weigh on either of those?

edit: ok well per your edit, i'm glad you think its easy to make the decision as CS - but its pretty irrelevant to the question of what the coach should do. i'm also curious why you think its reasonable to penalize the coach without articulating any discernable rule he broke?

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/14/2020 9:52:00 PM (view original):
that seems like unnecessarily hidden. who has ever read the terms of use of a website? anyone? if i was going to data mine the website i might check to see if they were not allowing that, or something along those lines - but regular use of a site.... i can't imagine there are more than 0.01% of people who would even consider looking at those. also i feel like they used to be bigger for HD? that is so short now.

anyway. so - you say its easy (or at least dilemma free) what that coach would do - but as of yet have offered nothing as far as what that might be. i also see nothing in the FPG that offers guidance to the coach in my scenario - or any similar scenario (finding yourself battling a coach with 2 teams through no fault of your own). care to weigh on either of those?

edit: ok well per your edit, i'm glad you think its easy to make the decision as CS - but its pretty irrelevant to the question of what the coach should do. i'm also curious why you think its reasonable to penalize the coach without articulating any discernable rule he broke?

FPG should definitely be pinned in the forums, and featured more prominently somewhere.

The three possible applicable violations, as I see them, are as follows:

• Discussing the pursuit of a recruit with another coach, including who is pursuing him and money that might have been spent....
• Sharing Future Stars Scouting (FSS) information between multiple teams ....
• Specifically targeting another coach is prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to, focusing on recruits a particular coach is pursuing in order to steal them or force the coach to overspend.”

The second is not necessarily an issue, if the user was on both from the start, and that would be easy enough for CS to see, so I won’t speculate on that here. The first and third are both likely at least *soft* violations. Soft, as in the user is in violation of them, even though they may not have been premeditated violations. So as long as there is no determination of premeditation, I’m certainly not saying the user should be banned, or anything like that. But their choices have created an unfair game experience for another user, and whether that was intended or not, those choices can and probably should have some consequences. This is what “harm and benefit; impact not intent” means. I haven’t said for sure that’s what I’d do, I’ve said it depends on all the specifics we obviously don’t know; but I probably lean in this direction.

I know you want me to get into the minutiae of what specific tactics they should have used within the mechanics of the game, and the answer is I really don’t care. It really is as simple as you just shouldn’t have two teams in the same world, much less the same division. I tried it for a minute; It took me a handful of seasons to see it is really untenable, if you are interested at all in fair play.

What is supposed to be done? It's simple..... the most obvious thing any coach can do.

LET'S STOP BEING DOUCHE BAGS HERE AND QUIT HAVING TWO TEAMS IN A WORLD, AT ANY DIVISION! LET'S STOP HAVING MULTIPLE IDS!

be normal and have one team, one ID and 10 teams as a maximum.

Come on out boys..... "yea but not every person with 2 IDs or more than one team in a world has bad intentions".... I'm sure they don't. But it's unnecessary to do. This solution solves everything, the end

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 4:21:00 AM (view original):
What is supposed to be done? It's simple..... the most obvious thing any coach can do.

LET'S STOP BEING DOUCHE BAGS HERE AND QUIT HAVING TWO TEAMS IN A WORLD, AT ANY DIVISION! LET'S STOP HAVING MULTIPLE IDS!

be normal and have one team, one ID and 10 teams as a maximum.

Come on out boys..... "yea but not every person with 2 IDs or more than one team in a world has bad intentions".... I'm sure they don't. But it's unnecessary to do. This solution solves everything, the end

Only reason HD will never make this their policy is $$$. So long as people with multiple accounts are paying customers blanket banning having more than 1 team per world potentially harms their revenue stream.

Without a change in policy people will continue their current behavior. Further, without better mechanisms for identifying violations of the FPG besides user reporting even the current policy is meh on enforcement.

I'd think so long as there's no evidence that the NC winning coaches aren't the ones in constant violation of the FPG's WIS isn't going to feel pressure to change anything. If a coach exploited the FPG and won 3 NC's in a row thanks to the advantages he gained they might consider investing more in FPG detection processes. But with fewer paying customers by restricting people to one account...how will they pay for the implementation of the technology to accomplish that?

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 9/15/2020 8:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 4:21:00 AM (view original):
What is supposed to be done? It's simple..... the most obvious thing any coach can do.

LET'S STOP BEING DOUCHE BAGS HERE AND QUIT HAVING TWO TEAMS IN A WORLD, AT ANY DIVISION! LET'S STOP HAVING MULTIPLE IDS!

be normal and have one team, one ID and 10 teams as a maximum.

Come on out boys..... "yea but not every person with 2 IDs or more than one team in a world has bad intentions".... I'm sure they don't. But it's unnecessary to do. This solution solves everything, the end

Only reason HD will never make this their policy is $$$. So long as people with multiple accounts are paying customers blanket banning having more than 1 team per world potentially harms their revenue stream.

Without a change in policy people will continue their current behavior. Further, without better mechanisms for identifying violations of the FPG besides user reporting even the current policy is meh on enforcement.

I'd think so long as there's no evidence that the NC winning coaches aren't the ones in constant violation of the FPG's WIS isn't going to feel pressure to change anything. If a coach exploited the FPG and won 3 NC's in a row thanks to the advantages he gained they might consider investing more in FPG detection processes. But with fewer paying customers by restricting people to one account...how will they pay for the implementation of the technology to accomplish that?

Ab90 wins titles in a row, at different schools by team hopping. They haven't fixed that yet. (He's also not winning very much anymore. And if he's reading, his ratio SUCKS for a self proclaimed "hall of Famer"!).

and my above post, I was just ranting. Was hopeful maybe typing in all caps might force people to consider dropping down to one profile and one team in each world. I guess it ain't gonna work!

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 9/15/2020 8:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 4:21:00 AM (view original):
What is supposed to be done? It's simple..... the most obvious thing any coach can do.

LET'S STOP BEING DOUCHE BAGS HERE AND QUIT HAVING TWO TEAMS IN A WORLD, AT ANY DIVISION! LET'S STOP HAVING MULTIPLE IDS!

be normal and have one team, one ID and 10 teams as a maximum.

Come on out boys..... "yea but not every person with 2 IDs or more than one team in a world has bad intentions".... I'm sure they don't. But it's unnecessary to do. This solution solves everything, the end

Only reason HD will never make this their policy is $$$. So long as people with multiple accounts are paying customers blanket banning having more than 1 team per world potentially harms their revenue stream.

Without a change in policy people will continue their current behavior. Further, without better mechanisms for identifying violations of the FPG besides user reporting even the current policy is meh on enforcement.

I'd think so long as there's no evidence that the NC winning coaches aren't the ones in constant violation of the FPG's WIS isn't going to feel pressure to change anything. If a coach exploited the FPG and won 3 NC's in a row thanks to the advantages he gained they might consider investing more in FPG detection processes. But with fewer paying customers by restricting people to one account...how will they pay for the implementation of the technology to accomplish that?

It would also be really hard to effectively regulate. It will most greatly impact the coaches who generally play by the rules, and different people who play in the same household; if a guy wants to go out of his way to cheat, they’ll likely find ways to get around IP/CC checks.

I’m not in favor of trying to disallow multiple users per household; nor really in favor of prohibiting multiple teams in a world for a single user, unless they come up with a *good* way to enforce it. But the FPGs should be more well known and easier to find. And it should also be easy to see which users share IP and/or credit cards, maybe connected by link in the profiles like the referrals.

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 4:21:00 AM (view original):
What is supposed to be done? It's simple..... the most obvious thing any coach can do.

LET'S STOP BEING DOUCHE BAGS HERE AND QUIT HAVING TWO TEAMS IN A WORLD, AT ANY DIVISION! LET'S STOP HAVING MULTIPLE IDS!

be normal and have one team, one ID and 10 teams as a maximum.

Come on out boys..... "yea but not every person with 2 IDs or more than one team in a world has bad intentions".... I'm sure they don't. But it's unnecessary to do. This solution solves everything, the end

i have no problem banning multiple teams. however, that is not the scenario today. the coach is allowed to have multiple teams. his actions today and the consequences for those actions cannot be governed by your long term desires. as of yet, nobody has touched the 'what does the coach do once he's there' question - and yes, im assuming he got there by accident / reasonable intentions in this question (if it was intentional ganging up, we all agree its collusion and a severe violation - and shoe - everything you referenced, unless i misunderstood, was re: intentional collusion). i don't think its an accident nobody has touched the hard question 'what should a good coach do once he's there'. i'm fine with the answer 'nothing, but we should change FPG'. i'm not fine with 'punish him anyway and change the FPG'. again, if this coach did this on purpose - i don't object to anything.

btw, that's what we used to talk about here on the forums - what the FPGs should be - how to advance the ball. it was far more productive than this weekly witch hunt.

"Ab90 wins titles in a row, at different schools by team hopping. They haven't fixed that yet. (He's also not winning very much anymore. And if he's reading, his ratio SUCKS for a self proclaimed "hall of Famer"!)."

Haha now that's a burn. Sounds like a Trump tweet.

"LOSER AB90 is overrated and can't compete fairly! SAD!"

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/15/2020 11:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 4:21:00 AM (view original):
What is supposed to be done? It's simple..... the most obvious thing any coach can do.

LET'S STOP BEING DOUCHE BAGS HERE AND QUIT HAVING TWO TEAMS IN A WORLD, AT ANY DIVISION! LET'S STOP HAVING MULTIPLE IDS!

be normal and have one team, one ID and 10 teams as a maximum.

Come on out boys..... "yea but not every person with 2 IDs or more than one team in a world has bad intentions".... I'm sure they don't. But it's unnecessary to do. This solution solves everything, the end

i have no problem banning multiple teams. however, that is not the scenario today. the coach is allowed to have multiple teams. his actions today and the consequences for those actions cannot be governed by your long term desires. as of yet, nobody has touched the 'what does the coach do once he's there' question - and yes, im assuming he got there by accident / reasonable intentions in this question (if it was intentional ganging up, we all agree its collusion and a severe violation - and shoe - everything you referenced, unless i misunderstood, was re: intentional collusion). i don't think its an accident nobody has touched the hard question 'what should a good coach do once he's there'. i'm fine with the answer 'nothing, but we should change FPG'. i'm not fine with 'punish him anyway and change the FPG'. again, if this coach did this on purpose - i don't object to anything.

btw, that's what we used to talk about here on the forums - what the FPGs should be - how to advance the ball. it was far more productive than this weekly witch hunt.

“Witch hunt” is silly rhetoric. Sending a warning and removing the effort (assuming the circumstances are what I think they are, and the user is actively pursuing both recruits now) is not well categorized as punitive. It’s removing, or at least mitigating some of the harm done by those actions taken that violated the fair play guidelines. I don’t care about punishing the user with two accounts. I care about restoration for the user whose experience was harmed.

If you have chosen to carry two accounts and use them in the same world, in the same division, you should reasonably know you will run into situations like this, where you will have knowledge that puts you in violation of the fairplay guidelines, if you use it to your advantage. “What would you have them do, not recruit as hard?” Yes. Exactly. Because if they recruit hard, knowing what they know with two accounts in this scenario, *they are colluding* at that point. And it is intentional at that point. It’s not even a gray area anymore. It’s a violation. So what do they have to do? They have to handicap themselves. To stay within the FPGs, as written, when this scenario comes up, they have to drop both recruits. Going after either violates both the first and third points I posted above.

Hope that clarifies.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/14/2020 9:52:00 PM (view original):
that seems like unnecessarily hidden. who has ever read the terms of use of a website? anyone? if i was going to data mine the website i might check to see if they were not allowing that, or something along those lines - but regular use of a site.... i can't imagine there are more than 0.01% of people who would even consider looking at those. also i feel like they used to be bigger for HD? that is so short now.

anyway. so - you say its easy (or at least dilemma free) what that coach would do - but as of yet have offered nothing as far as what that might be. i also see nothing in the FPG that offers guidance to the coach in my scenario - or any similar scenario (finding yourself battling a coach with 2 teams through no fault of your own). care to weigh on either of those?

edit: ok well per your edit, i'm glad you think its easy to make the decision as CS - but its pretty irrelevant to the question of what the coach should do. i'm also curious why you think its reasonable to penalize the coach without articulating any discernable rule he broke?

I didn't read the fairplay guidelines existed until I got 4 titles.

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 9:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 9/15/2020 8:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 4:21:00 AM (view original):
What is supposed to be done? It's simple..... the most obvious thing any coach can do.

LET'S STOP BEING DOUCHE BAGS HERE AND QUIT HAVING TWO TEAMS IN A WORLD, AT ANY DIVISION! LET'S STOP HAVING MULTIPLE IDS!

be normal and have one team, one ID and 10 teams as a maximum.

Come on out boys..... "yea but not every person with 2 IDs or more than one team in a world has bad intentions".... I'm sure they don't. But it's unnecessary to do. This solution solves everything, the end

Only reason HD will never make this their policy is $$$. So long as people with multiple accounts are paying customers blanket banning having more than 1 team per world potentially harms their revenue stream.

Without a change in policy people will continue their current behavior. Further, without better mechanisms for identifying violations of the FPG besides user reporting even the current policy is meh on enforcement.

I'd think so long as there's no evidence that the NC winning coaches aren't the ones in constant violation of the FPG's WIS isn't going to feel pressure to change anything. If a coach exploited the FPG and won 3 NC's in a row thanks to the advantages he gained they might consider investing more in FPG detection processes. But with fewer paying customers by restricting people to one account...how will they pay for the implementation of the technology to accomplish that?

Ab90 wins titles in a row, at different schools by team hopping. They haven't fixed that yet. (He's also not winning very much anymore. And if he's reading, his ratio SUCKS for a self proclaimed "hall of Famer"!).

and my above post, I was just ranting. Was hopeful maybe typing in all caps might force people to consider dropping down to one profile and one team in each world. I guess it ain't gonna work!

can i also say - i have no problem with the debate like 'i don't like the way ab90 coaches and don't want that to be allowed'. however, when it transitions from a conversation about the rules, to vitriol towards a person in compliance with the rules folks don't like, is where i think we cross a line. there's just way too much animus directed towards ab90 personally. except for this recent anti-ab90 stuff, he's always come across as a reasonable guy who most people got along with just fine. and its not like his ratio of teams per seasons is anywhere close to 1, his situation is a little over-mythologized or whatever.

but yeah. that's the problem - the personal attacks (folks with multiple accounts are cheaters, etc, from this thread). i have no problem with debates about the rules and i think we should have those. that is not the part of these threads that hurts the community. the personal attacks and vitriol do.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/15/2020 2:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 9:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sol_phenom3 on 9/15/2020 8:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 9/15/2020 4:21:00 AM (view original):
What is supposed to be done? It's simple..... the most obvious thing any coach can do.

LET'S STOP BEING DOUCHE BAGS HERE AND QUIT HAVING TWO TEAMS IN A WORLD, AT ANY DIVISION! LET'S STOP HAVING MULTIPLE IDS!

be normal and have one team, one ID and 10 teams as a maximum.

Come on out boys..... "yea but not every person with 2 IDs or more than one team in a world has bad intentions".... I'm sure they don't. But it's unnecessary to do. This solution solves everything, the end

Only reason HD will never make this their policy is $$$. So long as people with multiple accounts are paying customers blanket banning having more than 1 team per world potentially harms their revenue stream.

Without a change in policy people will continue their current behavior. Further, without better mechanisms for identifying violations of the FPG besides user reporting even the current policy is meh on enforcement.

I'd think so long as there's no evidence that the NC winning coaches aren't the ones in constant violation of the FPG's WIS isn't going to feel pressure to change anything. If a coach exploited the FPG and won 3 NC's in a row thanks to the advantages he gained they might consider investing more in FPG detection processes. But with fewer paying customers by restricting people to one account...how will they pay for the implementation of the technology to accomplish that?

Ab90 wins titles in a row, at different schools by team hopping. They haven't fixed that yet. (He's also not winning very much anymore. And if he's reading, his ratio SUCKS for a self proclaimed "hall of Famer"!).

and my above post, I was just ranting. Was hopeful maybe typing in all caps might force people to consider dropping down to one profile and one team in each world. I guess it ain't gonna work!

can i also say - i have no problem with the debate like 'i don't like the way ab90 coaches and don't want that to be allowed'. however, when it transitions from a conversation about the rules, to vitriol towards a person in compliance with the rules folks don't like, is where i think we cross a line. there's just way too much animus directed towards ab90 personally. except for this recent anti-ab90 stuff, he's always come across as a reasonable guy who most people got along with just fine. and its not like his ratio of teams per seasons is anywhere close to 1, his situation is a little over-mythologized or whatever.

but yeah. that's the problem - the personal attacks (folks with multiple accounts are cheaters, etc, from this thread). i have no problem with debates about the rules and i think we should have those. that is not the part of these threads that hurts the community. the personal attacks and vitriol do.

Guess what gil..... I don't like you either!

see how much different it is? Generally speaking, I'm just having fun here with all you guys. Even the bickering.i don't hate ab90 or you or anybody. But it's fun to come here and rant isn't it?!

also my "ab90 attack" you call it, is just a vague way of pointing out my topic. When anyone in HD history says "ab90", we all know what follows next. And it's not about being a Hall of Famer. It's about being a team hopper. If someone mentions gil, we instantly think 50 page responses. It's just what the community knows and sees. Who knows, when people mention "TopDogg" maybe people cheer and celebrate, or maybe people put me on mute.

all in all, it just is what it is.... #forumlife

There are a lot of things to be said about hall of fame coaches on this game, brevity is not one of them.