Team A put in 1225 AP
Team B put in 1267 AP

both offered max visits, a start and 15 minutes.

Team A prestige is A+
Team B prestige is A

1 preference difference

Team A was VG
Team B was N

Final was 67-33 for Team A

What division?

What was the preference, and was this the only preference?

Conference preference was Good, but both teams are in the same D2 conference.

The preference change was Defense

Just goes to show how one preference change and a slight prestige advantage can really sway things.

Were all the other preferences "no preference"?

Posted by mullycj on 9/17/2020 11:53:00 AM (view original):
Were all the other preferences "no preference"?

Yes

I've always found that prestige is extremely important, especially if it's A+ prestige. Some people downplay its significance for whatever reason, but it's freakin huge.

Also, in Div-1 at least, sometimes A+ prestige in reality can be more like A++++, depending on the school and its recent performance.

Piman314 at UConn in Crum had a long post in our Coaches Corner which got into great detail. It had to do with me at A-minus Providence maxxing out with 1400 AP's, 20/1 visits, start, 25 minutes, and somehow still finishing at only Moderate.

This was a couple of months ago when i then also flipped out about Boston College's base prestige too.

Posted by beachhouse on 9/17/2020 11:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 9/17/2020 11:53:00 AM (view original):
Were all the other preferences "no preference"?

Yes

Yeah, the lesson here then is two-fold, I think.

First, like npb said, the difference between A+ and A can be pretty big. Prestige is still the biggest single factor, considering the full scope range of modification. Even that 1/3 of a grade, especially when you’re looking at A+ which can sometimes effectively be more than 1/3, the prestige can explain some pretty big swings. Not quite this big, though.

The bigger thing, and this is something I’m not sure a lot of coaches really grasp well, the fewer preferences there are, the more impact the difference is going to have. If this guy had 5 preferences, and 4 of them were relatively even, this outcome would not have made any sense to me. But because all effort was modified by a single preference (and that prestige difference), the final effort credit tally has all gone pretty heavily in the same direction. Not as heavy as if the one preference was something more divisive like distance or success, but still pretty impactful, obviously.

Prestige matters a lot. I held an all in A+ to moderate as an A+++ or so with a 500 AP advantage and equal preferences.

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/17/2020 1:26:00 PM (view original):
Prestige matters a lot. I held an all in A+ to moderate as an A+++ or so with a 500 AP advantage and equal preferences.

OK, but other than offense and defense, preferences are rarely actually equal. If the player had a success preference, for example, that one is far from equal.

^^
The other good point. All "goods", "very goods", "bads", etc are not created equal.

Posted by shoe3 on 9/17/2020 12:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by beachhouse on 9/17/2020 11:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 9/17/2020 11:53:00 AM (view original):
Were all the other preferences "no preference"?

Yes

Yeah, the lesson here then is two-fold, I think.

First, like npb said, the difference between A+ and A can be pretty big. Prestige is still the biggest single factor, considering the full scope range of modification. Even that 1/3 of a grade, especially when you’re looking at A+ which can sometimes effectively be more than 1/3, the prestige can explain some pretty big swings. Not quite this big, though.

The bigger thing, and this is something I’m not sure a lot of coaches really grasp well, the fewer preferences there are, the more impact the difference is going to have. If this guy had 5 preferences, and 4 of them were relatively even, this outcome would not have made any sense to me. But because all effort was modified by a single preference (and that prestige difference), the final effort credit tally has all gone pretty heavily in the same direction. Not as heavy as if the one preference was something more divisive like distance or success, but still pretty impactful, obviously.

shoe - are you suggesting players have an overall preference, or something along those lines, such that a guy with few prefs has more weight on those prefs - in an absolute sense - than a guy with many prefs? so a guy with 4 prefs, 3 of which wash out and a motion, will value a motion team less than a guy with 1 pref for motion?

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/17/2020 4:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 9/17/2020 12:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by beachhouse on 9/17/2020 11:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 9/17/2020 11:53:00 AM (view original):
Were all the other preferences "no preference"?

Yes

Yeah, the lesson here then is two-fold, I think.

First, like npb said, the difference between A+ and A can be pretty big. Prestige is still the biggest single factor, considering the full scope range of modification. Even that 1/3 of a grade, especially when you’re looking at A+ which can sometimes effectively be more than 1/3, the prestige can explain some pretty big swings. Not quite this big, though.

The bigger thing, and this is something I’m not sure a lot of coaches really grasp well, the fewer preferences there are, the more impact the difference is going to have. If this guy had 5 preferences, and 4 of them were relatively even, this outcome would not have made any sense to me. But because all effort was modified by a single preference (and that prestige difference), the final effort credit tally has all gone pretty heavily in the same direction. Not as heavy as if the one preference was something more divisive like distance or success, but still pretty impactful, obviously.

shoe - are you suggesting players have an overall preference, or something along those lines, such that a guy with few prefs has more weight on those prefs - in an absolute sense - than a guy with many prefs? so a guy with 4 prefs, 3 of which wash out and a motion, will value a motion team less than a guy with 1 pref for motion?

Along those lines, yeah. I don’t think of them like washing out, though, and that’s part of it. Those preferences aren’t erased in a battle when they’re relatively even; they’re still there, modifying the credit you get for effort.