I've ran into a rut in recruiting the last 3 seasons. Looking for advice. How does everyone find their recruits? Scouting service, camps, assistant search? How much does everyone look at player rankings after say the top 50 recruits? Just looking for some advice to maybe switch my recruiting style up. Thanks for the help!

Check out cubcub's youtube series on HD recruiting... Hoops Dynasty: Top Options S1:E4 - YouTube

Scouting - Here’s what I do. If I have 3 open scholarships, I want to have at least 250 guys to level 4; I’m usually a little closer to 300 (just finished scouting in Phelan, have 291 to level 4 with 3 scholarships). Getting a big pool of guys with solid info is important for me.

I don’t know if I talk about this anywhere in this thread, but I use color codes at D1 to prioritize. I aim to find 3-5 targets for every scholarship I intend to fill; one primary target (blue), 1-2 good secondary targets (green), and 1-2 backup options if the others fall through (yellow). I also tag some reds, which are like blues, but are recruits I don’t go after hard first cycle, because I intend to watch to see who else is on them, and how hard they go after them. Many reds do turn blue for me after a cycle or two.

At high D1, my primary targets tend to be starred players, guys I’m willing to really invest in. Promises, visits, etc. The secondary guys are players who might see some limited strategic investment, but unlikely to get all-in investment from me; these are the sorts of players you might find ranked #30-150 by position typically, with either good potential in important spots, or coming with some other important skill my team needs, and for whatever reason I think I might be able to secure them with less than all-in investment.

The yellow guys are usually late signees, and will generally be crossed off my list early if other humans show significant effort. I’m generally trying to get these guys, if I need them, with AP and perhaps minutes promises only (so it’s helpful if they want to play, too).

My recruiting prep is a 2 (sometimes 3 step) process:
Step 1: I follow the "local" scouting plan in the below thread every time unless I am in the densely packed east coast and then I significantly lower the number of states I get the scouting service (as there are more recruits with 500 miles than you will be able to get). This is an extremely fast and efficient way to scout and you will get a PLENTY big pool to work from.

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=509170

Step 2: I filter out players with less than a 45 ATH or DEF and then color code the remaining players. My top targets are guys I think I generally have a shot at based on skillset, distance, and preference as well as roster needs. This group is generally 15-25 players depending on my open number of scholarships (and therefore the size of my pool of potential recruits). Next is a back-up group of players, I'd be fine with on my roster but I wouldn't be thrilled about. Finally a group of players I think are out of my reach based on skillset, distance and preference. Skill-set is more of a driver when I am B prestige or less and distance and preference are more of a driver as my prestige gets better. Generally, I get around 250-300 players to level 4 scouting, 150-200 after the filter and color code about 50-60. The rest go uncolored and I never think about them again.

Very high-level how I evaluate players, even at D- prestige I try to only sign players that will reach 80 ATH and DEF. I will make the a few exceptions but dip below 70 and even then do try to limit that. Then I look at 3 core types of players, PG, wing and post. PG is the most important but you need the fewest of them. I target players that will get to 70 SPD, passing and BH. Wings, I want 2 guys on my roster that are above 80 Per so generally this is where it comes from. Want my wings to also be above 55 speed and 30 rebounding. Post is the easiest position because you really only need them to be good in three categories ATH, DEF, REB (all 80 or above). Those are my base guidelines for evaluating players. Position rank has no impact on my evaluation. Even my A+ teams tend to have a couple guys 100+ in the position rankings as I prefer to have a more full roster and useful bench players I value more than most.

Step 3 if I have time: write a very short note about the players in the first group. I list a letter grade, expected position, if they are inel their GPA, distance and time of signing pref. This really makes recruiting alot easier and faster.

In the actual recruiting, I tend to put at least 1 AP on every player in the first bucket on the first cycle. I find that strategy works better than trying to guess who the other teams around you will or will not target. I stole this strategy from Chapel and Triston, two of the best coaches in the game. In cycle 2, I consolidate my APs on who I think I have the best shot at based on who is on. Sometimes I will use CV or HVs to scare off players with lower prestige or SIMAIs, but tend to not put on much till the cycle before signing. If you do it before then, you run the risk of a bigger fish blowing you out of the water AND you lose information as it is harder to see if others are on your recruit. I know some view this as poaching, but I find it to be the basics of the game and dont believe in poaching now that their are caps. I generally just assume anyone that is going to chase a recruit I like will as offer the full boat of recruiting effort (outside of APs).

Always happy to answer more detailed questions via sitemail, especially for old conference mates! Dont get frustrated and give up, this game is supposed to be fun. When I lose a recruit or game or screw something up, I try to laugh it off and congratulate who got the better of me.

I just lost my 12th straight head to head (or head to head to head) battle covering the last 3-4 seasons. I've had it. I was 72-28 favorite on this last one and lost.

One more season in reserve and then I'm out. I've tried everything. And I'm not losing all these top 50, top 100 battles. It's internationals, it's RS2. If I'm the only guy on a guy, then I'm ok. Head to head...nope. F this game.

I’m not here to talk anyone out of frustration, but in general here’s what I tell folks. If a coach plays long enough and regularly battles for good recruits as they should, they will inevitably have losing streaks in recruiting, and winning streaks to go with them. We all remember the losses better, because that’s human nature, but the winning happens too. You need to find ways to mitigate the losses, if risk avoidance is important to you. I like to mitigate the risk of the battles I choose - I punch up all the time with my non-A+ teams - by staying on plan B’s and C’s from early on. The best personal example I have was my first D1 Final 4 in Smith, with an Oregon team that had only one player on it I had won a battle with another D1 human for (he was a sophomore that season). Every other player was either taken from lower division teams, or signed with no real effort at all. “Go ugly first” was the bad dating advice my older brother gave me when I was 15; I didn’t listen to him, but it can work well for recruiting *if you are casting a big enough scouting net* like I talked about in my first post. Not for every roster spot, like I said, I will pick my spots to punch up and battle for certain guys most years, but enough to keep the team afloat should everything go south.

I'm far from a D1 guru but I have taken over a lower prestige programs. I try not swim on the deep end early. If I have 3 scholarships and I put all my chips on three top 100 guys, I'll probebly be lucky to come away with one. A top recruit is probebly not going to spurn an A+ program in favor of my less prestigious team. By the time I lose out on my prime targets, all the other worthwhile recruits are locked up and my roster is either remains stagnant or takes a step back with guys I need to poach from D2/D3 programs.

instead if I have 3 scholarships in my first year, I might target a one star international, top 100 at his position and a top 250 overall. As I build the roster, I build prestige and start recruiting better players, better prestige, more success, better recruits and so on. Regarding where, I hold a personal camp for 200, scout surrounding states and sometimes internationally. I'm not saying it's the best way or the secret to success, just the way I have approached.

Posted by gobosox514 on 9/4/2021 7:13:00 PM (view original):
I just lost my 12th straight head to head (or head to head to head) battle covering the last 3-4 seasons. I've had it. I was 72-28 favorite on this last one and lost.

One more season in reserve and then I'm out. I've tried everything. And I'm not losing all these top 50, top 100 battles. It's internationals, it's RS2. If I'm the only guy on a guy, then I'm ok. Head to head...nope. F this game.

I went thru a fully documented stretch of 6 wins vs 43 losses in rolls (including pics, odds, the whole nine yards. Friends can verify). I felt like you did. From the start of 2020 to around July or August, I had actually won more titles that year (3) than I had won rolls (2). It's sickening, I know.

But eventually it does change. You just gotta hang in there. Since that stretch passed, I consider myself the most lucky coach since. I've had some seasons where I've went 4-4 and 3/3. All in one week. At D1, sometimes that's literally all it takes is ONE lucky class to put you in F4 contention.

My suggestions to help (which I'm sure you've already tried some of)....... ONLY FOR THE TIME BEING, to get yourself out of the slump, "start" your recruiting search by looking a preferences first. And not talent. Once you sort by preferences, find the players you match with the most and THEN look at their talent. Creating a mini pool of all players that match up with you. Next tip, make sure you're all in on the player(s) of your choice. Getting that first roll win is almost more important than signing a great class at this point. Just for the confidence. Trust me, I know! And last, don't get laser focused on a player and lose your sense of reasoning. If you make your decision to unload all your effort on a player and you have a C prestige, you're going to have super low odds if Mr A+ school gets involved.

Making smart decisions, even if the talent isn't as high as you'd prefer, can change your outlook on recruiting. You need that first roll win to feel better about your recruiting process. It'll happen man! Hang in there!

Thanks for the feedback there is some very interesting things to see about recruiting that I didn't know and I've been playing for years! My dumb mistake I guess lol.

Posted by shoe3 on 9/4/2021 8:43:00 PM (view original):
I’m not here to talk anyone out of frustration, but in general here’s what I tell folks. If a coach plays long enough and regularly battles for good recruits as they should, they will inevitably have losing streaks in recruiting, and winning streaks to go with them. We all remember the losses better, because that’s human nature, but the winning happens too. You need to find ways to mitigate the losses, if risk avoidance is important to you. I like to mitigate the risk of the battles I choose - I punch up all the time with my non-A+ teams - by staying on plan B’s and C’s from early on. The best personal example I have was my first D1 Final 4 in Smith, with an Oregon team that had only one player on it I had won a battle with another D1 human for (he was a sophomore that season). Every other player was either taken from lower division teams, or signed with no real effort at all. “Go ugly first” was the bad dating advice my older brother gave me when I was 15; I didn’t listen to him, but it can work well for recruiting *if you are casting a big enough scouting net* like I talked about in my first post. Not for every roster spot, like I said, I will pick my spots to punch up and battle for certain guys most years, but enough to keep the team afloat should everything go south.

I like a lot of what has been said in this thread but I want to piggy back on this comment a bit since it’s commonly overlooked. Preface with - as with most of us, I had an insane losing streak several seasons back between 2 teams. It was so bad that I, like many others, dropped one of my teams out of frustration (the better of my two teams, NC contending type of team, SIMAI starting a walk-on level freshman made E8 the next season while sitting an elite level guard, can you tell I’m still bitter about it? lol). So I understand that frustration.

The way I got out of the rut was to begin letting recruiting come to me. I feel too many people try to “play the recruiting game” rather than allowing it to play out. Of the coaches I’ve had reach out to me for help, which has only been a few admittedly, I feel like Ive been pretty successful in adjusting their recruiting perspectives and they’ve been really happy with it as well. A few of the key points Id say are:

1. Understand that every team has a finite amount of resources so you need to learn where the battling team is and how they are using their resources - you don’t need to blow your scouting budget to find more recruits (offensive type of recruiting) but rather spend it to find where the battling team is (defensive type of recruiting) which is commonly nearby, which you should have scouted anyway, or internationally. No team can afford 4 battles for 4 scholarships barring extreme prestige differences.
2. You can attempt to “claim” your top 1-2 prospects early (depending on total number of scholarships) but you can’t claim ALL of your top prospects early. It would likely expose you too much unless you’re at a high enough prestige. Claim 1 or 2, show people you’re willing to put resources into it, and utilize the information you have on the team from point 1 to determine what you need to do to get better odds OR..
3. Be willing to back off. Heck, I’m debating doing this right now in a recruiting battle. I’ve invested some in a player but I’m not willing to invest more if it’s means I’m in a dice roll with 2-3 other teams. My AP and money will likely be better allocated elsewhere and I can accept that. When you start to think “no, this is MY guy” or “I’ve lost too many dice rolls, I need to win this one”, it may be time to pull off (the second one seems to get people quite a bit and that thought process is a slippery slope into becoming incredibly frustrated with the game).
4. What shoe3 said - The “ugly” players on your big board.. they’re on your big board for a reason. The early-preference ineligible guard who only has a D2 school on him? The big man who has crap LP but could be a star defender being pushed by only 3 SIMs? That offensively incompetent SF who has very high low post/perimeter but isn’t considering anyone? To any coach I’ve helped, I deem these players “free guys”. Commonly I’ll unlock them, offer the scholarship, remove all AP, and only invest AP if I’m challenged for them AND I think they’re worth the additional AP. Literally the bare minimum in that I’ll even use the equation to figure out how much is the least I can spend to get the scholarship. The equation is: let’s say you put X AP into them one cycle, the next cycle you can see you’ve unlocked Y% of their scholarship, plug in the calculator ((X * 100)/Y) to see the total AP needed OR (((X * 100)/Y)-X) to see how much more AP you need to invest. I’m on mobile so that might look messy; I can retype it if anyone needs. If it’s a decimal of any kind, round up… so think about that, you can spend 50 AP on a player youre 80-100% happy with because everyone else is too focused on getting the players they are 95-100% happy with. I’ve had some free guys become real studs (while others are, at worst, serviceable). 50 AP may not matter a TON in the grand scheme of battle, where you may be at over 1000 AP (maybe a few percentage points in a coin flip, I’m not expert in this area but that’s what I’d guess?) but those same 50 AP can matter very much in the grand scheme of your recruiting plan by getting another recruit.
5. Similar to point 4, it’s important to understand how the game works for these free guys. The ineligible guard with early preference only being considered by a D2 school can’t sign with the D2 school until RS2. If you offer the scholarship, he will sign with you. You don’t need to invest a single point more and can use them in battles to get better odds. The big man with the 3 sims on his considering list will be free once you knock those sims down to very low as they stop fighting you at that point. No more AP necessary which means more for your battles. The SF with nobody on his considering list and very high low post/perimeter (who may very likely see a blow up in one of those categories since those grow more than other categories on average) is free until somebody appears on his considering list. In fact, I’m helping someone now who still is adamant that “I don’t want to lose them so I’ll keep investing” and puts 20-30/cycle to “protect” free, non-primary guys when he is the only one of their considering list. All he really needs to do is watch the considering list closely, know that any team that appears is one step behind you, and determine what you want to do from there. The way I see it is many people waste hundreds of AP, which WILL matter in those battles, to get a guy who more often than not is uncontested.

Of course, there’s a lot more to recruiting than just this (and these are just my perspectives, not everyones) but I feel these points are some of the bigger ones. Tl;dr know who you’re battling and what they’re doing, don’t be 100% aggressive or passive, take free guys where you can get them and use the game’s mechanics to your advantage.